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Lano
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Now that there is little doubt that Trump did what he was accused of...

(If you still think it's a hoax, ask Lamar Alexander, Mit Romney, or Will Hurd. And other republican lawmakers who are still incapable of doublethink. Or look at the evidence. It's public.)

Let's say a Democrat gets elected in November. It is his second year in office. Florida gets hit with a hurricane. Congress approves disaster relief aid.

But hey, a Floridian senator just announced that he is running for president in 2024.

So the President puts a hold on disaster relief until the govenor of Florida announces that said senator is being investigated for corruption. Assume, even, that it's true said senator is being corrupt.


Not an impeachable offense anymore. You can't hold him accountable for what he does to Florida because of what Trump did to Ukraine, that Republicans decided was ok.

That is what is really at stake here. It's a moot point now though, oh well.

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Now that there is little doubt that Trump did what he was accused of...¬ ¬ ...¬ ¬ (If you still think it's a hoax, ask Lamar Alexander, Mit Romney, or Will Hurd. And other republican lawmakers who are still incapable of doublethink. Or look at the evidence. It's public.)¬ ¬ Let's say a Democrat gets elected in November. It is his second year in office. Florida gets hit with a hurricane. Congress approves disaster relief aid. ¬ ¬ But hey, a Floridian senator just announced that he is running for president in 2024. ¬ ¬ So the President puts a hold on disaster relief until the govenor of Florida announces that said senator is being investigated for corruption. Assume, even, that it's true said senator is being corrupt.¬ ¬ ¬ Not an impeachable offense anymore. You can't hold him accountable for what he does to Florida because of what Trump did to Ukraine, that Republicans decided was ok.¬ ¬ Let's say a Democrat gets elected in November. It is his second year in office. Florida gets hit with a hurricane. Congress approves disaster relief aid. ¬ ¬ But hey, a Floridian senator just announced that he is running for president in 2024. ¬ ¬ So the President puts a hold on disaster relief until the govenor of Florida announces that said senator is being investigated for corruption. Assume, even, that it's true said senator is being corrupt.¬ ¬ ¬ Not an impeachable offense anymore. You can't hold him accountable for what he does to Florida because of what Trump did to Ukraine, that Republicans decided was ok.¬ ¬ That is what is really at stake here. It's a moot point now though, oh well.

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Highly vivid and awesome speculation.

Disaster relief aid is generally based on ecological and economical impact surveys and seldom political.
Being a good, bad or indifferent Governer isn't going hinder a grant of aid to The People.

What you fail to realize is that kind of maneuvering (corruption) you're illustraitin, is more ascribed to the insidious nature of the Dems than the Republicans.

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Yep, it sets a dangerous precedence for the future.

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Not only that, but witnesses can be forbidden to testify by the executive branch, ensuring that justice has been truly blinded.

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I think they really need to pass specific laws saying that what trump did is illegal, so that this maybe has a smaller chance of happening again.

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Lano wrote:
I think they really need to pass specific laws saying that what trump did is illegal, so that this maybe has a smaller chance of happening again.

Really? I don't think so. After four years of hearing the liberals and Dems moan and groan, I'm just not looking forward to hearing another four years of the same thing IF a Democrat happens to be voted President -
"🎶 Oh, the laws are too strict and candid, our President may as well be bound and gagged! Damm those Conservitives and Republicans, look at how harsh they've made the laws!
It's not fair!🎶"
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
----------------
😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐
.....Because, as we all know, the truly high and mighty crimes will begin (once again), the instant a Dem is voted in.

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HelpCop wrote:

.....Because, as we all know, the truly high and mighty crimes will begin (once again), the instant a Dem is voted in.

So this alone kinda displays a deep seated bias within yourself that I think would be good for you to work on, for the sake of the intellectual part of your life. It's one thing to disagree on policy, it's another thing to say "any democratic president elected will be corrupt."

We all have biases, but we need to really challenge ourselves not to just shut our ears every time someone of a different point of view opens their mouth. Being open to listen to others and possibly change your view is not a sign of weakness, but of strength.

I think you can reasonably disagree as to whether or not what Trump did is impeachable, but it's clear that he did something deeply corrupt when lives were at stake. He's unapologetic about it, and not being chastised by his supporters for it, and so he will do everything in his power to repeat it.

Some Republicans have been honest enough to admit that what he did was wrong, though they aren't showing the strength to follow through on that belief and demand the President apologize and acknowledge his mistake. They are mumbling acknowledgements of wrongdoing as quietly as possible hoping that Trump supporters like yourself won't hear it. Others are just delusional. Ted Cruz made a statement about his vote tomorrow that basically implied that what Trump did is impeachable, but only if a Democratic President does it. Rubio said that just because an offense is impeachable, it doesn't mean that you should actually impeach the President. These statements sound outrageous and made up, yet they did make them. I can't pull up Ted Cruz's statement because I don't think it's online yet, but here's rubio's: https://medium.com/@SenatorMarcoRubio/my-statement-on-the-presidents-impeachment-trial-9669e82ccb43

But I think that it doesn't really matter how ridiculous and contradictory these statements are, you don't take that as a sign of the weakness of the President's defense. You just hear "Democrats wanted this from the beginning" and stop listening, or at least stop caring.

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its called politics.. do i care.. no but i will vote the lesser of 2 evils.

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NacthoMan wrote:
its called politics.. do i care.. no but i will vote the lesser of 2 evils.

https://images.app.goo.gl/dcDVqwx1ZZKY4DgaA

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Lano wrote:

NacthoMan wrote:
its called politics.. do i care.. no but i will vote the lesser of 2 evils.

https://images.app.goo.gl/dcDVqwx1ZZKY4DgaA

lol well played

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So this alone kinda displays a deep seated bias within yourself that I think would be good for you to work on, for the sake of the intellectual part of your life.

Uhh, I'll let you know when you're qualified to couch me. In the meantime -
Seriously? I seem to recall not long ago that you wanted nothing to do with the historical facts of anything I brought up because your stiff neck only insisted on looking at what was presently going on (and that's all good and well). However, you seem to be a shame to those great men who said things like; "Those who ignore history are bound to repeat its mistakes."
What good does mentioning 'biasism' to me, do any good for the intellect of your life, considering your very stance?
And, it is the mindset of a socially inclined politician (Dem) that is generally corrupt. That is a historical fact.

It's one thing to disagree on policy, it's another thing to say "any democratic president elected will be corrupt."

Policy is THE very thing I listen for when it comes to voting for a candidate. This is why I did not vote for Obama in '08 nor in '12. Because his policies stank to high heaven AND (regardless of what you think), his seat was nothing less than evil as he also served a position on the UN council PLUS a host of other factors that are too far spun to delve into here - I just clarifying my view when it comes to policy.
That is the concern, isn't it? To know what kind of country you live in and it's spirit. The U.S. was founded as a Constitutional Republic. A REPUBLIC.
And, when it comes to policy there are two kinds of people -

a) A People who wants a country that serves the best interest of the People.

b) People who want to get out of it what they can through social means.

a) = A Republican's veiw.
b) = A Democratic view.

If you want socialism, there's a planet full of countries to choose from. Go.

We all have biases, but we need to really challenge ourselves not to just shut our ears every time someone of a different point of view opens their mouth. Being open to listen to others and possibly change your view is not a sign of weakness, but of strength.

Well, it delights me to HEAR that you are starting to see things from a sensible Republican's point of view. Yes - there's no shame to admit ones awakening, it takes strength indeed....
No? No change of view?
Didn't think so.
Dems usually speak in one lane terms, for others, yet exceptionalize themselves when it comes to drinking their own prescriptions.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/cleor41/hydra...

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I think you're just using the Trump issue as an excuse to vent your frustrations with the Democratic Party. I don't blame you for being disappointed and frustrated with them...a lot of people who are registered democrats are. I'm independent myself and I'm also disappointed.

But nothing in what you just posted is a defense of Trump's actions, you didn't even mention his name once. Or anything about the case against him. You're just repeating what I've heard dozens of republicans say, either implicitly or explicitly: Trump is corrupt but we don't like Democrats, and that counts more than what is right.

Your "there's two kinds of people" philosophy works beautifully in that way of thinking. If trump wins, so do you. Well, he probably will, so congrats on that and it'll be fine in the short term for sure, but not in the long haul. The republicans have opened a can of worms that they can't close now. I already see one or two Democratic politicians who I think are taking several pages out of the Trump playbook. And maybe they'll be just as corrupt and win and then the Democrats are going grin when Republicans say "but what about he rule of law" and they'll shout back "Remember when Trump did it tho?"

That's just how corruption works, it doesn't go away because the person doing it also did good and right things. It leaves a legacy that we will continue to live with forever.

I'm not asking people to become independents like myself and I'm certainly not asking them to become Democrats. I'm not even necessarily saying that Trump should definitely be impeached.

Shucks, I won't even try to talk you out of not voting for him since you're convinced that any Democratic candidate is and will be corrupt. If that's what you really believe, bias or not, follow your conscience.

All I'm saying is, ESPECIALLY if you're a Trump supporter...hold him accountable. That doesn't necessarily mean don't vote for him. Write him a letter. Tweet about how you're disappointed in his actions. Say that American Presidents should not ask foreign leaders to investigate their American citizens to your family and friends. Or something, I don't know. But do SOMETHING.

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I think you're just using the Trump issue as an excuse to vent your frustrations with the Democratic Party. I don't blame you for being disappointed and frustrated with them...a lot of people who are registered democrats are. I'm independent myself and I'm also disappointed.

The Democratic Party doesn't frustrate me more than the liberal/democratic society who gravitate to and vote these delegates in. They operate this country in a fashion that is counter to the spirit of it's founding - like a social kiosk handing out free money and resources at the cost of debt at taxpayers expense. And who are the taxpayers? Responsible people who work for a living to rightfully provide for their own as they see fit. They don't have to share, but, it's taken from them in the guise of "fair representation."

But nothing in what you just posted is a defense of Trump's actions, you didn't even mention his name once. Or anything about the case against him.

Correct.

You're just repeating what I've heard dozens of republicans say, either implicitly or explicitly: Trump is corrupt but we don't like Democrats, and that counts more than what is right.

It is futile, Lano, to call Trump corrupt.... You can't call Trump corrupt when the corruption of politics transcends both time and man.
The only thing that keeps things fair and balanced is whose turn is next.... That was an issue settled 2016....
Y'all had a magical president back in '08, shaking and grooving to the funky-funky beat. He gave the bail out money, he popped the cork from the t!t of social welfare and let the cream flow like a river. Trillions of dollars in expenditures - and that was before his half time.
It was a nightmare ride that needed to an end. And the libs hate it -
😖 "It's over! And now I haftah grow up and start doing things for myself!"
😕.....Or you can just moan and complain for the next four years.....
😦😦😦😦...."Uh, really? Okay."

Your "there's two kinds of people" philosophy works beautifully in that way of thinking. If trump wins, so do you. Well, he probably will, so congrats on that and it'll be fine in the short term for sure, but not in the long haul. The republicans have opened a can of worms that they can't close now.

And, what are you basing "the long haul" on, Lano? Let me help with that -

I'm gonna borrow ten million dollars in your name. This makes you responsible for it. Then, I'm gonna flush it all down the sink of ghetto laden projects and turn my homies into gangstas livin in paradise.
Now, you may not be able to repay all that money in your life time, but the best ray of sunshine you have is knowing how short your life is and looking forward to its ending day. That, plus the generations of your kids in *******bondage to repay those good times with money you never got part of.
Yes, we have very different views of short/long term ideals. Including degrees of corruption.

You see, when you and the land of liberal socialists were enjoying the Democratic mosh pit for eight years, I (and a country full of people that I represent), was getting slammed from head to toe.
Who held Obama accountable then? You? The Dems? The Libs? The Socialists?

How do you justify asking of me something of which you never did when the time came?

I like Trumphs corruption.
It IS the lesser of two evils.

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HelpCop wrote:

How do you justify asking of me something of which you never did when the time came?

Because it's in your best interest to if you don't want to normalize the kind of corruption he's done and will continue to do.

I think what you're refering to with Obama is a criticism of his policies which is perfectly reasonable and not a supported in fact allegation of corruption like we have with Trump.

I was always pretty uninterested in politics until trump and i admit, some people i have helped elect have done things i disagree with and i should be better, both at criticizing when i disagree and giving signs of approval when i do. I didnt even know who my local congressman was before this started. I think im going to be better about it in the future.

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Why are any of you even bothering paying attention to the impeachment trials? They're just a tv show and politics always has been some form of entertainment or another.

Haven't you figured out by now no one gives af? And even if they did when they promised to serve you as an elected official, once they get in office they stop giving af.

You don't matter, your opinions don't matter. Clearly they do what they want. Especially now that laws can changed just because someone powerful enough says they do.

We're ******fucked. Can at least respect Mulvaney for being blunt. "Get over it."

Either the politicians aren't listening to us. Or there's something wrong with us. Either way it's unwinnable. This ****shit hole should just start over. It's time to give up and try again.


They say if you have an issue to "call your congressman"


LOL

6 months later the motherfucker sent out a generic autogenerated robo-mail response that said nothing. Yeah so what now? lol


SOL!

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I think what you're refering to with Obama is a criticism of his policies which is perfectly reasonable and not a supported in fact allegation of corruption like we have with Trump.

👆I will somewhat give this to you. Obama was a great mechanic - he used the right tools to dismantle as much infrastructure of the U.S. that he could wrench out.
Simply put, his policies were agenda based - and before you go touting "conspiracy theorist," why not consider the fact that no one is going to tell you they're going to destroy your home when they come knocking at your door. They do that once you open the door and let 'em in.
A Trojan is made to corrupt the system.

Trump is an antivirus and he has been doing what should be rightfully done - no one said that it was going to be pretty every step along the way. He's not corrupt but he may have to do some corrupt things to get certain jobs done. At least he's not hiding his actions under a formal veil of process.
It is my hope that he can rewind the business end of the U.S. back to the 90's and destroy NAFTA and continue to provide incentives for companies to come back (from whence they originally sprang) when the Clinton administration scattered them to the seven winds.
Hopefully, by that point, the voting booth will elect another Republican who will continue the work of restoring this countries economic balance.
Lives depend on the freedom of individuals to flourish in the economic workplace.

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Mitt Romney's speech got me legit choked up.

https://youtu.be/uawb5xS87bo

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Since george bush senior was elected, there has only been one time that a republican prez won the popular vote. GW's second term. He was an incumbent. And he only won it by the skin of his teeth. About 2 and a half points.

If that is a trend, Trump is the worst thing that has happened to the Republican party. The door of corruption swings both ways and its going to hit their party hard in the fanny. And the whole country will pay the price.

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Anonymous wrote:
Why are any of you even bothering paying attention to the impeachment trials? They're just a tv show and politics always has been some form of entertainment or another.

Haven't you figured out by now no one gives af? And even if they did when they promised to serve you as an elected official, once they get in office they stop giving af.

You don't matter, your opinions don't matter. Clearly they do what they want. Especially now that laws can changed just because someone powerful enough says they do.

We're ******fucked. Can at least respect Mulvaney for being blunt. "Get over it."

Either the politicians aren't listening to us. Or there's something wrong with us. Either way it's unwinnable. This ****shit hole should just start over. It's time to give up and try again.


They say if you have an issue to "call your congressman"


LOL

6 months later the motherfucker sent out a generic autogenerated robo-mail response that said nothing. Yeah so what now? lol


SOL!

There are plenty of times when public officials, one way or another, or for one reason or another, bow to public opinion. They also have a strong hand in making that public opinion through their own actions and words, but it does go both ways.

I have written to my own local congressperson and senators during the impeachment, but they were not long, detailed letters...I just wrote to them expressing in a few brief words my feelings on impeachment. I'm just one of their constituents, and I'm sure they only skim through the letters that they receive unless something about it stands out to them enough to give it a closer look. I am under no illusion that my letters would be one of those, so I wrote accordingly.

My senator did write back to one but it was a highly generic response that was clearly copy and pasted, but they did at least read the first sentence.

The only way you would change their mind about something is if you got together with a few hundred or thousand other people and emailed about the same topic or concern. So my hope is that other people in my district and state are sending them stuff similar to my own concerns.

In any case, what public officials do matters. I think it's less depressing to live under the illusion that they might care at least a LITTLE about my feelings on it. Otherwise what's the point?

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I don't get why my replies get flagged for approval sometimes :(

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Lano wrote:
I don't get why my replies get flagged for approval sometimes :(

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Because, Lano....the algorithm of the site is Republican - lol (jkng)

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Cudos for the vid, Lano.
I'm actually a bit surprised that it was moving to you.
I was impressed with his proclamation of faith. That's not something that's very popular these days regardless of what side of the aisle you stand or sit.
The speech was well crafted. It gave the vibe that something had happened but said without conviction.
High crimes and mistomeners.

When he said that, my memory recalled the 2012 race after Obama had been re-elected for the second time.

I still find it funny -
Trump was accused of using a foreign body to investigate or inspect his opponent....
While it may be odd to me to go about it in that way it just makes good campaign sense to know the weaknesses of who you run against.

But, what does that have to do with the 2012 re-election of Obama???

Simple. Every U.S. vote was counted by a foreign body - in this case it was France.
According to the count of France, Obama won the election.....
Nobody, and I mean nobody that I've talked to ever heard about this. Secondly, the same people that I mention wouldn't know just how unpresidented that is.

U.S. votes counted and numbers determined, by a foreign government politic...

I really can't think of a crime of the Trump administration that is as criminal, treasonous or high compared to the vote count of 2012....

Anyway...we'll see how it looks in 2020.

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I admit i've never heard that before. I'm also confused as to how that could be physically possible. No one at my polling place had a french accent.

I guess mitt romney doesn't know that either, or at least i dont remember him making a stink about it.

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Also "went about in an odd way" is the understatement of the year. There are literally hundreds of ways he could have done it without damaging our national security or attempting to solicit a bribe from a foreign leader with aid he was entrusted by Congress to disperse.

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The one thing that I'm highly familiar with is, we live in a land of accusations every day. He said, she said, double speak.... It doesn't always make it so.

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So, this is the first time Trump has done something that has actually made me REALLY angry:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/politics/alex-vi...

It is the President's right to fire these people but he's firing them for OBEYING THE LAW and TELLING THE TRUTH. These were good people, who, regardless of how you feel about the impeachment inquiry...were just doing what they thought their duty demanded of them. Loyalty matters over quality of people to this President, clearly.

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Loyalty matters over quality of people to this President, clearly.

So....what do you think about former/late President John F. Kennedy?

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I don't have any strong feelings either way.

Speaking of former Presidents, remember when FDR got in trouble for trying to pack the courts?

You had a couple of the Democratic candidates talking about doing that if they get in office.

Door of corruption swings both ways.

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Here's what's up:

Trump is a businessman. Let me explain, from the ground up.
(I typed this in another post but it bears repeating)


-
Business:
/ˈbiznəs/


noun: the practice of making one's living by engaging in commerce.
-

What is it we make for a living? We make MONEY. What is we make money for? A LIVING:
/ˈliviNG/

noun:
an income sufficient to LIVE.
-

It is an inherent attribute of business to drive down costs and drive up productivity.

Business is inherently greedy. We have based our self worth on the amount of money we can have. The U.S. government officially recognizes how much money you have, as equal to how much freedom you have. More money equals more freedom.

Think about that for a minute...

By driving down costs and increasing productivity you're basically saying "I will not pay a single cent more of cost than I have to."
An employee's income and the benefits they're offered are a cost for the company.
So based on this logic why pay American workers dollars, what you can pay someone pennies doing the same work across the ocean? Some American workers may see that company as greedy for outsourcing middle to high income paying jobs to countries where they can pay a fraction of the cost.

At the same time you have acts in government passed that allow business to have a much more influential outcome on elections that control the very government that have made these things the way they are. Acts that have spawned movements like End Citizens United:

wiki:
End Citizens United (ECU) is a political action committee in the United States. The organization is working to reverse the U.S. Supreme Court 2010 decision in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, which deregulated limits on independent expenditure group spending for (or against) specific candidates.

That in other words, allow very rich business owners to have 0 limits on donations made to political election campaigns.

The catch-22 here is:

If you started a business you would want it to be this way. It would increase your companies profit and you would be making more money.

You would suddenly become an advocate for this model of behavior. Because it is now in your self interest that your business be as successful as possible. Reducing costs, and increasing productivity.


This inherent attribute of business, is part of the backbone of many variables that affect YOU DIRECTLY from the top down. We are a capitalist society and that means we are all about our money. Every, single, one of us. It is, whether we like it or not, how we determine our own "freedom."


This president is all about making Americans a blue collar worker. Meanwhile all the white collar jobs are getting shipped out of the country. In Chattanooga TVA just shut down hundreds of software jobs and moved them out. If you want to be a factory cog this president is definitely your guy. He's happy to make you all mindless drones operating a machine doing mundane simple tasks over and over again. Have fun with that! NOTHING against blue collar jobs at all! But I'd rather aim higher just to be honest. If my fellow Americans weren't so easy to distract, I'd be surprised at the low bar we're allowing this president to set for ourselves.

I feel like it makes sense, and that I can reasonably conclude based on the best data available to me, that this country is not heading in the direction of wealthier workers. White collar jobs are going and low skill labor is the thing. The demand for low skill, low wage jobs is currently increasing beyond the amount of total people entering the workforce annually. They're trying to fill the lower skill, lower wage positions to meet this demand and all of these fools are licking it up and applauding job growth?? We're not cutting edge, we're cutting out the best jobs to lower costs. A win for corporate America and a loss for the American worker. They want lever pulling, button pressing, cashiering, line working, food service, janitors to be their cogs.

Freelance contracting is on the rise because American business will never work in the interest of American workers, but rather in their own self interest - it is in their nature. What makes it even worse is that they no longer even need American workers. America is no longer a country of opportunity. At least not for those who cannot make their own opportunity. In the end, 0 companies will choose to pay more costs to operate than they absolutely need to. It is a natural business interest to pursue lowering costs and increasing productivity. Here's a nifty chart: https://tinyurl.com/qtvg7an

The approach to running our country should not be the same as running a WalMart. They will keep getting paid and we will be hanging up our four year degree/equivalent experience jobs to become blue collar cogs.

The endgame will look like this: You'll either be a rich business owner, or you'll be a low paid cog in the business owners business/chain of businesses. And it will probably be a career of jumping from one temporary position to another at that. ....maybe from one of the rich owners businesses to ...another one of that same owners businesses.(Don't get fed up at taco bell and go over to kfc you'll still be making the same owners rich)

Trump will run on his "job growth" "industrial productivity increases", and it will be true: He and those like him, will give us more jobs, and those jobs may end up with higher wages(and I mean a few dollars an hour higher) afforded by the gutting of the middle of the corporate ladder. Trading middle and upper income positions for outsourcing cheaper high skill labor(and will be temporary), and lower(but raised slightly) income menial labor. They won't be the jobs we want. Don't let them trick you with these salesman gimmicks and pitches. Don't let them trade your middle and upper income paying jobs to turn you into a factory worker to fill the 3m jobs in the lower skill, lower wages positions coming available. Be cutting edge. Not cutting quality. Go for a qualitative economy not just a quantitative one. It will be healthier and it will make us all happier.

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My biggest problem with trump is MUCH simpiler than the subtlties of libeterian vs more socialist based economic policies. At the end of the day i just want the economy to be good and people to have good jobs and i dont care how we get there.


Regardless of your political views Trump is not your guy. Voting in corruption is not going to help you long term.

I'm not even Democrat but i want trump to lose and for the republicans to lose the senate big because i think it's the only thing that will wipe the stain of trump off the constitution.

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