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Padre_J_Roulston
last online: 07/29, 18:58
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I don’t know what to do now…

Backstory: The building I work in has commercial space on the ground floor and apartments up above. My company was hired in part to be the super for the building. The building has never been properly maintained in the past 100 yrs. And there is absolutely structural damage. (Our company did what we could, but we didn’t have the budget to do much more than keep the apartments operational.) The building is comprised of 4 different adjoining sections.
Back in February there was a fire scare. One of the apartments was using a LOT of extension cords, and one had over heated. The fire department used that as an excuse to check the entire building and discovered its horrible condition. They then issued a number of orders for the owner to fix within a month.
Then last week the FD came back to see what orders had been completed (none). Then Friday they came back with a structural engineer (one of the orders)… now everyone is being evicted due to the unsafe area. Everyone has until the end of the month to be out.

So, the issue I have is that some of the tenants (4 out of the 7) are trying to fight the eviction. The way the laws are here, are such that the FD has the right to evict anyone for safety reasons. They have contacted… someone, we’ll call him “R”… who is trying to help them fight. R used to be a lawyer. He has been retired for 20+ years and now has the beginning of dementia. R is also my business partner’s father.

R and one of the tenants came down to my office to ask my business partner some questions about the building, which brought me into the conversation.
I tried to explain to them that they cannot fight this eviction. That is not the fight to focus on, because they cannot win. R did not disagree with me. The tenant is so emotional thought that he wouldn’t listen. His argument is that he has been in the building for 8 years and nothing has ever happened due to structural issues so why would it start now.
I tried to explain that the damage in one section will affect the other sections. (Section 3 is starting to fall down). He even acknowledged that if one unit fell it would pull the others down too. I even suggested not worrying about fighting the eviction, but to sue the owner for letting it happen in the first place.

The argument got heated to the point that the tenant was getting ready to hit things. He was completely against any reason. He said that he would rather go to prison than have to move… which would happen if he tried to continue to live there after the eviction.

I don’t know what to do. How do you reason with someone so completely emotional?

P.S. sorry for the book.

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fight, building, orders, structural, eviction
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Lano
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I have worked in customer service oriented jobs for a long time. I'm guessing you have worked with people a lot as well, so maybe this isn't news to you.

Some people are reasonable, and if you explain things to them logically, in a way they can understand, they will accept your explanation, however grudgingly.

Some people just want to vent. If you let them be angry and explain what is upsetting them, and let them air their grievance, that seems to help. Say that you get it, and be specific, if you can. Say how your cousin got evicted for a similar situation and how hard it was for him or her. Or whatever anecdote you may have that would apply.

All that said, some people just want what they want. They don't care about your reasons, perhaps they've already decided that they know better than you or that you either don't care or are out to cheat them.

In the last situation, like in the first two, you need to be the adult in the room and keep a cool head. To something like "I would rather go to jail." I would try some empathy and be more "real" than professional and say "Sir, I don't think you really want that. I understand that you want to say in your home but unfortunately that just isn't possible anymore." Perhaps offer to do some research to see if there are any similarly priced, comparable amenity apartments in the area on the spot with him.

If he is starting to get violent then you have to get the police involved. That is unacceptable behavior.

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Yorick
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i feel ya padre..

sigh. people are still childish no matter how old they are. Know that reason is the best mediator. if they wont listen .. provide some sort of solution.. remember.. a stubborn person inquires a careful plan within reason. such as temp stay somewhere else..

may it be relaying your solution. nobody likes to be ordered to do anything especially when its a osha/saftey mandate. so play ball .. the rules are in course.

might i add.. why are people residing in an incomplete housing complex??

the goal here is to build an affordable residence - and sure theres gonna be some check ups so n so.

Electric
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It wouldn't matter even if the tenant was partially correct about the buildings condition - it's about what the fire department says in general.
If it's not safe, it's NOT safe. (We all obviously agree).

So, the REAL 64 thousand dollar question is.......
What part of the picture does insurence play in this game?

The legitimate truth is, insurance should cover most all "unsafe" areas the fire department claims to exist.

If/being the case, you should be able to temporarily reshelter your tenants until the project is completed and deemed "safe," and then move them back in.

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Padre_J_Roulston
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Lano wrote:
I have worked in customer service oriented jobs for a long time. I'm guessing you have worked with people a lot as well, so maybe this isn't news to you.

Some people are reasonable, and if you explain things to them logically, in a way they can understand, they will accept your explanation, however grudgingly.

Some people just want to vent. If you let them be angry and explain what is upsetting them, and let them air their grievance, that seems to help. Say that you get it, and be specific, if you can. Say how your cousin got evicted for a similar situation and how hard it was for him or her. Or whatever anecdote you may have that would apply.

All that said, some people just want what they want. They don't care about your reasons, perhaps they've already decided that they know better than you or that you either don't care or are out to cheat them.

In the last situation, like in the first two, you need to be the adult in the room and keep a cool head. To something like "I would rather go to jail." I would try some empathy and be more "real" than professional and say "Sir, I don't think you really want that. I understand that you want to say in your home but unfortunately that just isn't possible anymore." Perhaps offer to do some research to see if there are any similarly priced, comparable amenity apartments in the area on the spot with him.

If he is starting to get violent then you have to get the police involved. That is unacceptable behavior.

I tried all of those things... He just wasn't rational in any way, and stopped just short of actual violence.

One of the biggest issues with this eviction, is that there is a 0% housing market in the area here. And what housing is being built, it is all high end medium residential houses, and well out of the price range of all the tenants. My business partner and I have directed the tenants to those who may be able to help, but they don't seem to care, or are adamant that they are not leaving.

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Padre_J_Roulston
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NacthoMan wrote:
i feel ya padre..

sigh. people are still childish no matter how old they are. Know that reason is the best mediator. if they wont listen .. provide some sort of solution.. remember.. a stubborn person inquires a careful plan within reason. such as temp stay somewhere else..

may it be relaying your solution. nobody likes to be ordered to do anything especially when its a osha/saftey mandate. so play ball .. the rules are in course.

might i add.. why are people residing in an incomplete housing complex??

the goal here is to build an affordable residence - and sure theres gonna be some check ups so n so.

This isn't an incomplete housing complex... It is an old building, that was in one family for close to 100 years. And in that 100 years they did virtually no maintenance. The building has needed a new roof for more than 25 years now. The water damage, and other structure issues have all just gotten worse over time.

Then the family that owned the building had a second mortgage and defaulted on it. Now the second mortgagee is in possession, and didn't do anything to the building either. I believe they were using it as a tax writeoff.

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Padre_J_Roulston
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BA1 wrote:
It wouldn't matter even if the tenant was partially correct about the buildings condition - it's about what the fire department says in general.
If it's not safe, it's NOT safe. (We all obviously agree).

So, the REAL 64 thousand dollar question is.......
What part of the picture does insurence play in this game?

The legitimate truth is, insurance should cover most all "unsafe" areas the fire department claims to exist.

If/being the case, you should be able to temporarily reshelter your tenants until the project is completed and deemed "safe," and then move them back in.

Insurance doesn't play into this at all. Because all of the issues were predating the acquisition of the building. All the issues were known, and nothing was actively done to stop the deterioration of the building.

We still haven't gotten word on what the owner is planning on doing with the building... and the FD still hasn't published the official report from the Structural Engineers. It is entirely possible that the FD will mandate that the building be demolished.

Electric
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Well.....
Based on the criteria given, be prepared to jump the ship.

Even if the FD allows the structure to remain standing, it won't allow for any sort of habitation. Effectivly...you're kinda screwed.

Wash your hands and run.

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Padre_J_Roulston
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BA1 wrote:
Well.....
Based on the criteria given, be prepared to jump the ship.

Even if the FD allows the structure to remain standing, it won't allow for any sort of habitation. Effectivly...you're kinda screwed.

Wash your hands and run.

That is what my business partner and I are doing... But how can I get it through to the tenants who are trying to fight it. They can't win this fight. They certainly have grounds to go after the owner for failing to maintain the building, but not to fight the FD.

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And I just learned that they spoke briefly to another practicing lawyer... who told them not to move out, because the FD requires a court order to remove them.

However, as I understand it, all it takes is the FD to call a judge to sign the order... there's no hearing or anything. And given the state of the building, they wouldn't have a hard time getting the court order.

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Lano
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Padre_J_Roulston wrote:
And I just learned that they spoke briefly to another practicing lawyer... who told them not to move out, because the FD requires a court order to remove them.

However, as I understand it, all it takes is the FD to call a judge to sign the order... there's no hearing or anything. And given the state of the building, they wouldn't have a hard time getting the court order.

I wonder if that is part of some kind of legal strategy to try and argue that the eviction notice is invalid.

Maybe they can sue the owner to put an injunction on him to do the repairs? Supposing that the FD doesn't say the building has to be demolished.

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Lano
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If you subtract the immense...let's say "illogicalness" of wanting to live in a place that could start collapsing at anytime. What they are doing is rational.

Leaving your home is extremely inconvenient, not cheap, and they may have to live in a place that is a lot more expensive than what they currently have, and who knows if they can afford that.

But still...safety of you and your family above all else. You don't want to live in a place where the roof could fall on your head any minute.

Like if it was me, I wouldn't be able to sleep in a place where I knew that it wasn't safe.

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Electric
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Padre wrote:
That is what my business partner and I are doing... But how can I get it through to the tenants who are trying to fight it. They can't win this fight.

You've already delivered the bad news to them....
I know you're not going to like the sound of it but....it's time to be the "Bad Guy" and throw them under the bus. Point them in the direction of the fire department then pull a disappearing act.
They're going to have to come to terms sooner or later and you can't be everyone's pilot to land their plane.
It sucks, I know. I've earned a few "Bad Guy" trophies a time or two. All you can do is accept it with some degree of grace.

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