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Time dilation is a lie.

Prove me wrong.

If it takes 1 million years for light to reach earth from a star system, and it takes 1 million years for that light to get from the star system to earth, then it takes... 1 million years. Where tf is the time differences?

The definition of dilate is: "a slowing of time in accordance with the theory of relativity that occurs in a system in motion relative to an outside observer and that becomes apparent especially as the speed of the system approaches that of light."

This does not happen when light particles leave a star and travels 1 million years to earth. It takes 1 million years for the light to get here. It takes 1 million years for us to wait on the light to get here. It takes 1 million years period.

It will take 1 million years 1 second behind that light to reach Earth 1 second later. Every second is a 1 million years ago snapshot.

Hypothetically if light travelled faster than light, it would take that much less time for the light to reach Earth. Say for example it works out to be 750,000 years.


Then...It takes 750,000 years for the light to get here. It will take 750,000 years for us to wait on the light to get here.

It will take 750,000 years 1 second behind that light to reach Earth 1 second later. Every second is a 750,000 years ago snapshot.

The star system the light travels from will be 750,000 years older too.

If you pop on a ship from here to a neighboring star and visit a tropical planet for vacation and pretend it works out to take 3 years to get there at faster than light speed, when you get there your destination will be 3 years older, your point of origin will be 3 years older, and you will be 3 years older. Round trip 6 years.

I hear people suggesting that if you break this mythical speed of light-'universal speed limit' you'd be kissing the world and people you know good-bye. I think that's ridiculous.

Suggesting that time works different for one and not the other just cannot be.

Folks need to stop letting their perceptions be their reality. Time and space is not influenced nor bends to our perception of it.

If you can prove otherwise please enlighten me.

Oh and just curious. Say an empty universe can exist hypothetically. No stars, no matter, no energy NOTHING. Does this universe even have a speed of light?

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Anonymous edited this post .

Time dilation is a lie. Prove me wrong.¬ ¬ If it takes 1 million years for light to reach earth from a star system, and it takes 1 million years for that light to get from the star system to earth, then it takes... 1 million years. Where tf is the time differences? ¬ ¬ The definition of dilate is: "make or become wider, larger, or more open."¬ ¬ This does not happen when light particles leave a star and travels 1 million years to earth. It takes 1 million years for the light to get here. It takes 1 million years for us to wait on the light to get here. It takes 1 million years period.¬ ¬ It will take 1 million years 1 second behind that light to reach Earth 1 second later. Every second is a 1 million years ago snapshot. ¬ ¬ Hypothetically if light travelled faster than light, it would take that much less time for the light to reach Earth. Say for example it works out to be 750,000 years. ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ Then...It takes 750,000 years for the light to get here. It will take 750,000 years for us to wait on the light to get here. ¬ ¬ It will take 750,000 years 1 second behind that light to reach Earth 1 second later. Every second is a 750,000 years ago snapshot.¬ ¬ The star system the light travels from will be 750,000 years older too.¬ ¬ If you pop on a ship from here to a neighboring star and visit a tropical planet for vacation and pretend it works out to take 3 years to get there at faster than light speed, when you get there your destination will be 3 years older, your point of origin will be 3 years older, and you will be 3 years older. Round trip 6 years.¬ ¬ I hear people suggesting that if you break this mythical speed of light-'universal speed limit' you'd be kissing the world and people you know good-bye. I think that's ridiculous. ¬ ¬ Suggesting that time works different for one and not the other just cannot be. ¬ ¬ Folks need to stop letting their perceptions be their reality. Time and space is not influenced nor bends to our perception of it.¬ ¬ If you can prove otherwise please enlighten me..¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ Oh and just curious. Say an empty universe can exist hypothetically. No stars, no matter, no energy NOTHING. Does this universe even have a speed of light?

Anonymous edited this post .

Time dilation is a lie. Prove me wrong.¬ ¬ If it takes 1 million years for light to reach earth from a star system, and it takes 1 million years for that light to get from the star system to earth, then it takes... 1 million years. Where tf is the time differences? ¬ ¬ The definition of dilate is: "make or become wider, larger, or more open."¬ ¬ This does not happen when light particles leave : "a slowing of time in accordance with the theory of relativity that occurs in a system in motion relative to an outside observer and that becomes apparent especially as the speed of the system approaches that of light."¬ ¬ This does not happen when light particles leave a star and travels 1 million years to earth. It takes 1 million years for the light to get here. It takes 1 million years for us to wait on the light to get here. It takes 1 million years period.¬ ¬ It will take 1 million years 1 second behind that light to reach Earth 1 second later. Every second is a 1 million years ago snapshot. ¬ ¬ Hypothetically if light travelled faster than light, it would take that much less time for the light to reach Earth. Say for example it works out to be 750,000 years. ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ Then...It takes 750,000 years for the light to get here. It will take 750,000 years for us to wait on the light to get here. ¬ ¬ It will take 750,000 years 1 second behind that light to reach Earth 1 second later. Every second is a 750,000 years ago snapshot.¬ ¬ The star system the light travels from will be 750,000 years older too.¬ ¬ If you pop on a ship from here to a neighboring star and visit a tropical planet for vacation and pretend it works out to take 3 years to get there at faster than light speed, when you get there your destination will be 3 years older, your point of origin will be 3 years older, and you will be 3 years older. Round trip 6 years.¬ ¬ I hear people suggesting that if you break this mythical speed of light-'universal speed limit' you'd be kissing the world and people you know good-bye. I think that's ridiculous. ¬ ¬ Suggesting that time works different for one and not the other just cannot be. ¬ ¬ Folks need to stop letting their perceptions be their reality. Time and space is not influenced nor bends to our perception of it.¬ ¬ If you can prove otherwise please enlighten me.¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ Oh and just curious. Say an empty universe can exist hypothetically. No stars, no matter, no energy NOTHING. Does this universe even have a speed of light?

Yorick
Yorick
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this is why we will invent FTL tech

16935743 1750032141977429 1455532587 o
Padre_J_Roulston
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If I understand time dilation properly, it is how things are effected by time/speed.

Yes, light leaves the star 1 million years away, and travels for 1 million years to reach here. (it is already travelling at light speed)

When an object increases speed to near-light speed, things change relative to its origin. The outside world seems to slow down due to the change in speed.
The trip for the object takes 1 million years from the point of view of the origin, but it takes less time from the perspective of the object.

For a novel I started, where a colony ship was going to Proxima B, I figured out the math... The trip from the perspective of Earth was going to take 10 years. On the ship it would take right around 9.
(I'll see if I can still find my notes for that story)

Now all of that said... part of the FTL drives, depending on the theory, is that the warp field/hyperspace/etc. is that it allows traversing vast distances without relativity affecting those inside the bubble.

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Padre_J_Roulston
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So, I found my math...

Earth to Proxima Centauri = 4.22 Light Years away
Constant-Thrust Trajectory (maneuver)
4.22 Light Years = 5 years @ 0.95m/s^2 = 0.5C
= 10 years travel time

So the theory is that the ship accelerated up to 0.5C stayed there for 5 years, then started the deceleration process.

********************

t^1 = dilated time
t = stationary time
V = velocity
C = speed of light

********************

t^1=t√(1-V^2/C^2)
=10yr √(1-(0.42C^2)/C^2)
=10yr √(1-(0.1764))
=10yr √(0.8236)
=10yr * 0.9075
=9.075yr on the ship

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Lano
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Anonymous wrote:

If it takes 1 million years for light to reach earth from a star system, and it takes 1 million years for that light to get from the star system to earth, then it takes... 1 million years. Where tf is the time differences?

The theory of relativity and it's implications are this: the idea that 1 million years on the surface of the Earth and 1 million years in your hypothetical million lightyear away star system are "the same" is just not true. Or they are, but they aren't necessarily taking place in the same amount of time in both places.

Meaning the idea that in the time it takes one hour to elapse here on Earth, that exactly one hour is also passing everywhere else in the universe is just not true.

The main factors that cause time dilation are gravity wells and speed. So the faster you go and the stronger the gravity, the more time slows.

Scientists have effectively proved that time dilation occurs by using super precise clocks and putting them at different altitudes and moving them at different speeds and they show that time elapsed slower in the faster moving clocks than they do on the slower moving clocks, and likewise time moves slower at lower altitudes than at higher altitudes. They've also done it by showing that certain particles will decay slower at faster speeds than slower speeds.

In terms of the speeds those clocks were moved at and the difference in altitudes we are talking about, the differences are pretty miniscule.

But when you are talking about moving huge distances at the speed of light, the differences are much greater.


Here are some references:

https://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/a...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/eins...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_test...


Here are a couple of interesting videos I found on the topic:

https://youtu.be/tzQC3uYL67U

https://youtu.be/yuD34tEpRFw

My personal thoughts: I don't really know, I'm not a physicist and my understanding of these things is not very deep. Some of the results of physics, when explained to me, make no sense. But I look at it like this: the idea that the usual rules of space and time get wonky when we start talking in terms of extremely large objects or extremely fast moving objects doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.

It also makes sense to me that our everyday experiences are primarily the result of our monkey-brains doing their best to make sense out of a manifold of inputs that are a probably a lot more complicated and interesting that what we can perceive. So maybe the cat is both dead and alive, and maybe time moves really slow when you're moving at the speed of light, idk.

Anonymous wrote:

Folks need to stop letting their perceptions be their reality. Time and space is not influenced nor bends to our perception of it.

I kinda used to have this reaction to explanations of relativity but as I have learned a bit more about it, I have gotten the impression that it is more the result of poor explanations. I think people often phrase it as "it would see" or "the apparent speed" when they really mean something else.


Here is another interesting video from an Italian physicist who questions the validity of time as a concept. It's a more "philosophical" take.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeHHjGKwZWM

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Lano
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Anonymous wrote:

Say an empty universe can exist hypothetically. No stars, no matter, no energy NOTHING. Does this universe even have a speed of light?

The thing is, if you take relativity seriously, this question is ambiguous. I would say okay, not matter no energy, no light...but is there space?

Space is not nothing in relativity. Its a space time continuum. Spacetime continuum is the medium through which anything can travel. And the fastest you can move through space is the speed of light, according to the theory. So in that sense the speed of light is still there.

Again my understanding is not super deep and i get frustrated by many of the explanations myself but i imagine a physicsist might say something like that.

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Yorick
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heres a good perception of the speed of light

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvH2MVI8idw

its rather slow in our vast universe

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
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Holy crap... go away for a few years and Help.com turns into Physics.com. Or did I go away for a million years??? Apparently it's all the same, or all a lie. I'm going to have to revisit this discussion when I'm not half a dozen Heinekens in, or was it a million Heinekens?

Help me with:

I need help.

Yorick
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DocteurRalph wrote:
Holy crap... go away for a few years and Help.com turns into Physics.com. Or did I go away for a million years??? Apparently it's all the same, or all a lie. I'm going to have to revisit this discussion when I'm not half a dozen Heinekens in, or was it a million Heinekens?

Mars is where it got me to pick up myself and get off the computer to grab something lol

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I am apparently awfully late for this reply (I too, have been away for what apparently is now a million years) but this made me giggle. Although, personally, I am a few Jack Daniels in...and my math really sucks to the point of understanding physics.

This is honestly, my only understanding of physics...and I still don't understand it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIhu_IXXijQ

It's a good thing I'm only in love with a scientist (who isn't a Timelord), and not one myself.

Edit: This was meant to quote @DocteurRalph but apparently something went wonky and it didn't register...

Still, it stands.

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