As far as I can see, what you're doing is characterizing taxes in support of a policy you happen not to agree with as theft. That isn't fair.
When taxation is properly represented, it's not theft because I benefit by it.
I am characterizing the policies which have a communist construct - socialism.
The kid in the class with 50 pencils gets NO benefit when you (as an authority) steal from him to give to the kid whose pencil is broke. How does that kid (now with 49 pencils) benefit by that action....? He doesn't. Period. It's criminal and that is what's unfair, and it's appalling (but not surprising) that you think that kind of action is perfectly okay. It theft, Lano and it will never be "okay."
People with a sense of entitlement are the hardest to convince because they want something without labor or regard of the impact of the other person.
Strictly speaking, all taxes are involuntary forms of public donation, ie, theft in that very general sense. We don't call it theft because the theory is that these taxes have legitimacy because they are passed by our elected officials, and therefore, we are taxing ourselves, in an indirect way.
- "forms of public donation?" Are you serious? This isn't the Salvation Army or the March of Dimes we're talking about....
Taxes (forced or otherwise) aren't "donations." The government isn't a charity organization, but it seems likes it's being ran like one more and more in recent times.
[quote]We live in a democracy -[quote]
No, Lano, we don't live in a Democracy. We live in a Constitutional Republic and that is the essential core of this country's founding.
However, we have a democracy for supposed " checks and balances." But, democracy in this country has mutated beyond the roll it was meant to play.
On the second paragraph there...we're not talking about ferraris here. We're talking about healthcare -
Stop dancing, Lano. You not going to high step past this. It was clear enough that I was addressing your sense if entitlement for those things which do not belong to you.๐
If not having that Ferrari meant I would die a slow and painful death, then yes, give me the Ferrari mr. millionaire.
๐Which is a mentality you demonstrate here again. So, your character is made clear by this. The real reality is no one owes you anything under any circumstance regardless of life or limb.
Further, you're not going to redefine the comparison I made to your "Robbing Hood" pencil-theft example. It still remains theft.
I'm appalled (but to no surprise),the reason you can't figure it out is because of your sense of entitlement.
That millionaire with 50 Ferraris is you buddy. And now you have 49. But, wait! There's more! (Do you see it comming Lano?) There's a whole world in hardship out there and I (the authority) have determined that you should support the capable but unwilling.
It soon follows that you're standing in the social breadline, just like many people did in the USSR back in the 60's, 70's and 80's.
I am probably really just not understanding your analogy then. I think your example makes a lot more sense if we're talking about something like fixed income rather then public saftety nets.
Go back and re-read what I originally wrote. After reading, think about the dots I have connected for you until enlightenment is achieved...
[quoteIn your analogy, I am assuming the A students are the rich, correct? [/quote]
I'm not combing through that again with you. What I said and what I meant were painstakingly clear to begin with.
And again, we're talking about healthcare here, or at least I am.
No, we're talking about socialism -
POST: "Why do young people like socialism so much?"
Health care is a mere pixel of a deadlier topic.
The stakes are literally life, limb, and death.
Uhh, yes they are. Just like the trains that took the Jews to their death camps in Germany, the trains here are all set to go.
The FEMA camps are quietly awaiting your arrival when all of this collapses.
- but I look at countries with public healthcare systems and they seem to find a way to make it work.
They're not "public" healthcare systems, Lano. Call it for what it really is; Social Healthcare. It works by cheapening the labor of it's citizens, stealing what little they have, redistributing it to the lazy and going further into debt. That's how it works.
This country has been compared to other countries until it has been compared to death.
The U.S. once had the greatest way and nothing compared to it....until it fell to socialism.
- writtenaeolians.revenge wrote:
Socialism works perfectly until you run out of other peoples money
That's a fact, and honestly, the money is already gone. We're just borrowing it until the end....
https://youtu.be/jL-F4-RDNz4
Lano wrote:
I don't think that analogy tracks for the following reason -
Then, you're still missing the mark, friend.
Grades are evaluations of performance -
Correct, however, the question must be answered; HOW is the evaluation of performance conducted? Under a social construct performance is averaged by means of grade redistribution
- and medical treatment is a resource.
I'll come back to this.๐
The analogy would be closer like this: You only have one pencil. Most of the other kids in class have three or four pencils and there are a couple of kids in class that have fifty pencils a piece.
Okay, and then.....
You work hard and get good grades, but on the final exam, which counts for 70 percent of your grade, your pencil breaks as you write your name on the top.
๐ This example does not work, Lano, because you're working hard to make the students of the classroom better grades - you're not earning specifically what you worked so hard for. The ONLY hope you have for higher grades is the hope other students will perform equal to or greater than you.
You can give every student in the class an abundance of the best resources and it won't make a difference if they don't have the personal motivation to work hard, study and perform well.
I don't have to take a hit on my grades because someone else's IQ is naturally low, much less if a perfectly intelligent student is lazy.
It's more than fair for the teacher, in a case like that, to demand that one of the kids with fifty pencils give you one, and maybe an extra for just in case.
That's not "fair." That's forced theft, is what that is.... The parents of those students bought those pencils directly from their own pocket and gave it to their children - those are personal and private belongings.
The school operates under taxation. With multiple budget meetings, the oversight committee could account for a "broken pencil" happenstance - but anyone willing to suggest that forced theft is fair, when someone demands it, has a clear sense of entitlement.
By your account, I should be able to call the Gimme Troopers on any millionaire who has more than 50 Ferraris and make them give me one because my 1976 Ford Pinto finally bit the dust....
It's theft.
Or you can just say "tough luck, you should just, you know, HAVE more pencils. Guess you're failure."
It just doesn't work that way.
Socialism/Communism are maternally related.
The cost of medical treatment is high due to the nature of it's greed. The MANDATE for INSURENCE has given healthcare a licence for lucre.
You know....I'm tired of selling my bags popcorn for a dollar each. So I'm going to start a law that forces you to buy my popcorn. When that law passes, I'm going to pop only one bag of popcorn and charge a million bucks for it. You, the next customer in line at gunpoint, are going to buy that bag, like it or not (is the mentality). You can pay for it with the total material sum of your labors, or you can find an insurance broker willing to qualify you.
๐This๐ is how it really is.
The sad part about it all is you never lived in a time where getting X-rays to set a broken bone and wear a cast would cost you $75 bucks. If necessary, a bad tooth yanked for $15 bucks.
Greed is something that has always existed, this is true. But, the level of where it is and what it now control is unpresidented.
- writtenHow is it mentally and morally lazy to expect one's time to be respected?
Because there are circumstances that have a higher value than your time and desire for validation.
It's a fact that the poorest of societies are the most generous and giving with their time and what little resources they have. People are a priceless resource.
Scenerio 1. It's winter, slick roads, etc. A lady diving a car full of kids ends up in a ditch with absolutely no physical injury to anyone, not even the car.
A guy driving a jacked up fully loaded 4X4, sees her predicament. He's on it fast - he calls the cops, the ambulance, the fire department, a tow truck and a taxi. A few minutes later he drives off and after a hard days work he goes home to his loving wife and tells her all about what happened earlier that day.
"My hero," she says.
And everybody slept well that night. The end.
Scenario 2. Same situation with the lady and the ditched car. But this time the driver of a junk truck 4X4 sees her situation. He gets out with a chain and hook and ultimately pulls the car out of the ditch onto the road.
From there, he bids the lady a good day and after a hard days work he's too tired to eat the dinner his loving wife made, much less remember the lady he pulled out of the ditch earlier.
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You asked a question, you got an answer. That'll be $19.95 How will you be paying today?
- writtenAnonymous Repliant wrote:
Everything about what you say here is that we're paying for it anyway(or paid for by borrowing). As much as you are with social security, why not also be happy with how much you're investing into health insurance plans(education etc.) that just happen to, not only make affordable health care available to you, but also available to everyone? Since you're paying for it anyway, why wouldn't you be happy investing in a health care system that just happens to help make a healthier U.S?
I'll answer this both metaphorically and directly.
1. You're a good student. You study hard and burn the midnight oil. Other students in your class aren't like that. But, no problem, right? Well, in this case, the grading system operates under a socialistic system.
You get back your report card and to your surprise you're given all C's..... Why? Because the grading system operates under a socialistic system, that's why. The A's you make are thrown in with the class average of others who are failures (= F) in order that others can benefit from your hard work. There is no incentive for the other parasites to get off their lazy azz and study - they're content with C's. If they actually got the grade they deserve, the school would kick them out into the street.
It's failures like those that need to hit the g0โฌโฌdฮฉmm ground and bounce....
That's one thing, but when it comes to Social Security, it's not a matter of public averages. What makes Social Security "social" is because it's a government program that is offered to all who pay into that program.
For example, if you're a hard working student, given the grade you actually work for, it may do you some good to take a (slightly) lesser grade when the time may come where you don't do so well. A grade reserve program. Then, and ONLY then, will an average do you good because you're relying on your past performance to bring that percentage up.
You're not relying on the performance of lazy blood suckers in the class for a higher grade.
There is no such thing as affordable health care under a socialistic construct. It's beneficial to the blood suckers and those who are fiscally disadvantaged - but it's far from affordable.
Do you even know what affordability means? It means that the given cost of anything is such that you can reach right into your own pocket and pay for it without sacrificing your first-born child, or selling your soul to Satan.
In case it's not clear enough, let me ask you this; why don't we start a social program where everyone must have mandatory GROCERY INSURENCE......???
If you think $6.95 for a "Family Sized" bag of Dorito's chips are expensive just hop aboard the grocery insurance train (like all the other social trains) and see what happens then. You'll see those chips tagged at $69.95 and it won't be long before you lose your house because you defaulted on your refi the last time you went shopping....
Standing on that platform you will quickly come to sobriety when you see others "qualify" for free and unlimited benefits who can make it to grocery store AND out the door with overflowing shopping carts WITH every known bag of chips under the created heaven....
There's your "affordable healthcare."
Meanwhile....those rows of giant shopping carts.....forget it.....they're not for you, but for someone else. On a sunny day, you'll be lucky to pull out the petite cart - made specifically for hard working person. Otherwise, it's the hand-held basket....with a fully armed escort to assist you with your shopping experience.
I will not support a system that makes me financially responsible for your health care needs. Your health is your responsibility, not mine. The bill that you generate is not something that I am obligated to pay for.
If you like hand-out's and freebies, hope like #e!! the system goes full commie.
BananaLlama wrote:
Because they have never paid taxes and still live in an idealistic world.
I would include wanting something without working for it is a popular view, as well.
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Lano wrote:
And what do you mean by socialism?
Well, Lano, the standard definition of Socialism is to lean on the government politic as a benefactor for your needs wants and desires.
Lano wrote:
The usa has tons of socialist policies that no one (or at least not most) seem to have a problem with. Public schools, public libraries, social security, unemployment benefits, the government of most states requiring you to have auto insurance if you want to drive, and others i can't think of right now.Probably you have none of these things in mind when you say socialism, but are simply aping rhetoric that a pundit is spouting who could care less if your child has a basic education.
Drivel. While you accuse the Poster of aping rhetoric and framing his/her thoughts as comming from something more than a higher functioning amobea, it seems you can't sort the difference between what is social and what is socialist and where to place the "ism."
Everything you listed has a unique dynamic when it comes to the body politic, but instead of considering that, you carried on as if no one would notice.
No, I don't mind programs such as Social Security and/or Unemployment. They suit me according to the level I have INVESTED into it. Secondly, it is specific to me - no other person benefits from my labor and certainly I cannot draw benefits from the labor and investment of others.
Public education and schools ride a fine line. It is by taxation of property and homeowners that primarily fund public schools. If a particular educational instution want funds above its primary source, only then does it nurse from the government t!t.
My parents worked and payed into the system and because I received the benefit of that it was fair and balanced.
College, or "advanced education," does NOT directly operate from the same angle of taxation. Loans, grants and awarded tuitions usually rely on the government who borrows that money from the FED. This also means that when a former student who went to school to be a rocket scientist, can have their student loans forgiven after a few drops of tears when the only job hiring is a corporate drive-thru....
But, having graduated high school decades ago and no children of my own, why should I be taxed for someone else's kid? So, when you say; "The usa has tons of socialist policies that no one (or at least not most) seem to have a problem with," is an assumption. Just because people bite their tongue doesn't mean they're enjoying it.
Manditory vehicle insurance is communist not socialist. It benefits commercial corporations only. The State recieves kick-backs from that corporation for it's conduct of business and is the main incentive to motivate law enforcement to bust as many "drivers" who drive without it.
It's a box bigger than Pandora. The ONLY people who don't have a problem with it are those who can afford it without feeling the financial loss, or hunger that goes with it.
But....who's getting social vehicle insurance? No one, because there's no such thing and therefore pointless to list it among "socialistic programs."
Anonymous wrote:
Really if you think about it though, what could you possibly doing for anyone that's so advanced that they can't get off their lazy ***ass and do it themselvesUnless you're doing some kind of specialized work, like building a friend a website for his garage band for example, then they really probably don't need your help in the first place and that they're asking for it probably just means that they'd rather let someone else do it simply because they don't want to.
Stop letting them be lazy pieces of crap and make them get off their lazy worthless ***ass and do it themselves!
And if you are doing something for someone that is a specialized skill that they really can't do, YOU SHOULD BE CHARGING THEM!
This is a case where I should start a list of nonexhaustive situations whereby people genuinely need(ed) a hand, but if I did I WOULD HAVE TO CHARGE YOU!
It's easier to say that you're mentally and morally lazy and views as yours are sold wholesale cheap, full stop.
- there is individual integrity that is a component of societal integrity but, while I was trying to dig kinda deep, I just wasn't trying to dig that deep.
It's right there where you said it all. Individual integrity is the key component to society.
Don't get me wrong, what you mention about business is true enough. And though you may not like/believe/or accept, there are people who operate their business with a spiritual undertone. I'm just stating a fact that the God in the Bible has a few things to say about business and finance matters. Just sayin'.
And yes the OP is spiritual in nature but not as "preachy" as most.
There are different kinds of integrity. The question posed was "Why do so many lack it" which indicates a question concerning society rather than individual personal integrity to me.
To you.
There are no variant forms of integrity in my opinion. You either have it or you don't.
Why do so many lack it, is still a question of morality and not so much as a societal construct.
If it were a question of society, then I have society to blame when my integrity fail and I decide to be a sh!t heal. In that case, it's beautiful - I don't have to account for my action nor pay the consequences.
- writtenIntegrity is an issue of being. Not of business.
And yes, you may not have had the pleasure of writing something here as someone is stepping on their edit button. The page does move.
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