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Gone
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Whatever happened to integrity?


Why are there so many cons, liars. Theives, manipulators,
What happened?
I ask this sincerely.
I picked my brain a million times,
I honestly dont get it

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Since writing this post Gone may have helped people, but has not within the last four (4) days.
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Yorick
(1 minute after post)
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only the honest recognizes integrity

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Averageness is the tendency in most things in life, so most people have an average amount of integrity, which can often be seen as...no integrity at all.

I think I know some people of great integrity. It's not a general rule though.

Electric
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Those who know a Holy God and understand the Day of Judgement possess unbreakable integrity.

75971 10152125729463961 180579742 n
(17 hours after post)
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The Second Coming
By William Butler Yeats
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Inbound1896536404
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(22 hours after post)
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You nailed it soco

Thanks will. And big al

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(2 days after post)
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its no longer righteous to be honest, to be fair, to be true. After God died, there is nobody watching you, there is nobody judging you. There is only one God Money, Materialism, and self indulgence (same and different trinity)

Anonymous
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(2 days after post)
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It has nothing to do with god. It's a loss of control of our society. How we are organized to govern ourselves is all messed up. Tricky up there mentioned money being worshiped as a god and it has a lot to do with money. I'll explain what I mean:

-
Business:
/ˈbiznəs/


noun: the practice of making one's living by engaging in commerce.
-

What is it we make for a living? We make MONEY. What is we make money for? A LIVING:
/ˈliviNG/

noun:
an income sufficient to LIVE.
-

It is an inherent attribute of business to drive down costs and drive up productivity.

Business is inherently greedy. We have based our self worth on the amount of money we can have. The U.S. government officially recognizes how much money you have, as equal to how much freedom you have. More money equals more freedom.

Think about that for a minute...

By driving down costs and increasing productivity you're basically saying "I will not pay a single cent more of cost than I have to."
An employee's income and the benefits they're offered are a cost for the company.
So based on this logic why pay American workers dollars, what you can pay someone pennies doing the same work across the ocean? Some American workers may see that company as greedy for outsourcing middle to high income paying jobs to countries where they can pay a fraction of the cost.

At the same time you have acts in government passed that allow business to have a much more influential outcome on elections that control the very government that have made these things the way they are. Acts that have spawned movements like End Citizens United:

wiki:
End Citizens United (ECU) is a political action committee in the United States. The organization is working to reverse the U.S. Supreme Court 2010 decision in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, which deregulated limits on independent expenditure group spending for (or against) specific candidates.

That in other words, allow very rich business owners to have 0 limits on donations made to political election campaigns.

The catch-22 here is:

If you started a business you would want it to be this way. It would increase your companies profit and you would be making more money.

You would suddenly become an advocate for this model of behavior. Because it is now in your self interest that your business be as successful as possible. Reducing costs, and increasing productivity.


This inherent attribute of business, is part of the backbone of many variables that affect YOU DIRECTLY from the top down. We are a capitalist society and that means we are all about our money. Every, single, one of us. It is, whether we like it or not, how we determine our own "freedom."


The apparent lack of integrity is actually perfect business sense.
It's a cut-throat competition between who gets the most "freedom."

The only thing that gets me is why do we allow these businesses to buy our politicians? It's wrong. Business should be about making money not making politics. That's where I get blown away...

Electric
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Anon wrote:
It has nothing to do with god.

For you.

It's a loss of control of our society.

Control, or lack thereof, when it comes to society, has nothing to do with the personal code of morality one chooses. That's an internal matter and like it or not, spiritual.

How we are organized to govern ourselves is all messed up.

By who's standard.....?

Anonymous
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(2 days after post)
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HelpCop wrote:

Anon wrote:
It has nothing to do with god.

For you.

It's a loss of control of our society.

Control, or lack thereof, when it comes to society, has nothing to do with the personal code of morality one chooses. That's an internal matter and like it or not, spiritual.

How we are organized to govern ourselves is all messed up.

By who's standard.....?

So by trying to sequester my statement about it not being about god into a strictly personal opinion I can assume that you're religiousy? That's cool...

First of all I call total BULLSHIT to your reply about being a personal code of morality one (key word ONE) chooses. Because it's not. Bird's of a feather flock together you've been taught that. You get together and vote your values. You are not one you are many. That is just some of the power behind your delusions.

This isn't something I should have to explain.

And to answer your other question about standards, by the original posters observation of a lack of integrity in current standards. He asked a real question, and I attempted to provide a precise and specific real answer.

You don't have to agree with the details as much as examine the general point:

The integrity issues that he has stated to have observed comes from the foundation of our societal beliefs. Which are often reflected by a majority.

Since you're religiousy, you may already know that America is made up of mostly Christians(65% to be more precise) and that makes a majority. So believe it or not, these are mostly by your standards.

I was actually trying to keep god out of it and offer a realistic and reasonable explanation is all.

Unless you think it actually is a problem with most people's personal integrity? Rather than societal integrity as a whole?

Electric
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So by trying to sequester my statement about it not being about god into a strictly personal opinion I can assume that you're religiousy? That's cool...

Triggered much? As I write this I have felt the page move four times. Go figure.

Anyway - the first thing you did when you entered the thread was read a few replies along the way and saw that people actually have a spiritual nature and believe in God.
What did you do? You "sequestered" the expression of those views by trying to factualize an impossible and personal opinion, (ie: It has nothing to do with god).

So...what were you saying?

Anonymous
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(2 days after post)
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HelpCop wrote:

As I write this I have felt the page move four times.

Really? I feel powerful. I made the page move!

And by saying it has nothing to do with god, I mean it's a business decision not a decision influenced as much by god. So whatever point you are tryin to bring about god is really kind irrelevant. If the point of business is to make money, then that is it's purpose. It is not to believe in a god. Business is business.

No matter what your personal beliefs, business is not in business to exist for anything but making money. Reducing cost, and increasing productivity. That's it.

It has nothing to do with god. I believe that to be a fact based on its definition. Not an influential nature inflicted by individuals because that's just not the definition of a business. Business isn't a church. That's why they're tax free and get away with murder.

It has nothing to do with god. It's sole purpose is to exist. And the inherent nature to increase productivity and decrease cost is not a religious decision but more an existential decision not a religious decision.

Electric
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Integrity is an issue of being. Not of business.

And yes, you may not have had the pleasure of writing something here as someone is stepping on their edit button. The page does move.

Anonymous
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HelpCop wrote:
Integrity is an issue of being. Not of business.

And yes, you may not have had the pleasure of writing something here as someone is stepping on their edit button. The page does move.

LOL I'll try to add to my thoughts and submit once rather than editing my apologies. I'm trying to make my replies easier to follow by adding to them and it's maybe not working like I'd hoped.

There are different kinds of integrity. The question posed was "Why do so many lack it" which indicates a question concerning society rather than individual personal integrity to me.

Electric
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There are different kinds of integrity. The question posed was "Why do so many lack it" which indicates a question concerning society rather than individual personal integrity to me.

To you.

There are no variant forms of integrity in my opinion. You either have it or you don't.

Why do so many lack it, is still a question of morality and not so much as a societal construct.

If it were a question of society, then I have society to blame when my integrity fail and I decide to be a sh!t heal. In that case, it's beautiful - I don't have to account for my action nor pay the consequences.

Anonymous
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HelpCop wrote:

There are different kinds of integrity. The question posed was "Why do so many lack it" which indicates a question concerning society rather than individual personal integrity to me.

To you.

There are no variant forms of integrity in my opinion. You either have or you don't.

Why do so many lack it, is still a question of morality and not so much as a societal construct.

If it were a question of society, then I have society to blame when my integrity fail and I decide to be a sh!t heal. In that case, it's beautiful - I don't have to account for my action nor pay the consequences.

I just think you're misunderstanding a lot of my reply it is more general and you're trying to be specific. Yes, you're right there is individual integrity that is a component of societal integrity but, while I was trying to dig kinda deep, I just wasn't trying to dig that deep. Hence the exclusion. I think those are primary influencers of our personal values, and those can get into more spiritual issues but I felt that was a different discussion than the one the OP is trying to have. I could be wrong. OP? I wonder what are his thoughts?

Electric
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- there is individual integrity that is a component of societal integrity but, while I was trying to dig kinda deep, I just wasn't trying to dig that deep.

It's right there where you said it all. Individual integrity is the key component to society.

Don't get me wrong, what you mention about business is true enough. And though you may not like/believe/or accept, there are people who operate their business with a spiritual undertone. I'm just stating a fact that the God in the Bible has a few things to say about business and finance matters. Just sayin'.

And yes the OP is spiritual in nature but not as "preachy" as most.

Anonymous
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HelpCop wrote:

- there is individual integrity that is a component of societal integrity but, while I was trying to dig kinda deep, I just wasn't trying to dig that deep.

It's right there where you said it all. Individual integrity is the key component to society.

Don't get me wrong, what you mention about business is true enough. And though you may not like/believe/or accept, there are people who operate their business with a spiritual undertone. I'm just stating a fact that the God in the Bible has a few things to say about business and finance matters. Just sayin'.

And yes the OP is spiritual in nature but not as "preachy" as most.

Whoah where'd you get the impression I didn't know these things existed? Of course some business owners run their business with a spiritual undertone. It's a dangerous issue imo. But that's getting into my opinion and getting away from the examination of the definition of the very nature of business itself.

And with all due respect, Jesus's opinion might hold some weight if he were up to date on the current events of business but he's not here we have to do it ourselves. Even the Bible says that we have our own will. We can't base our business and government decisions on what god might do. He said we have to do it for ourselves. If you want to consider god and personal values in all of this...

But you and I are not a business. And we never will be. So they really don't correlate much. Beyond those who might make up the operational body of a business that is. That still doesn't make that body the business itself. At least not if we stick with the current definition of business.

Inbound1896536404
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Wow.. great reads. Keep it up..

Yorick
(3 days after post)
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aeolians.revenge wrote:
Wow.. great reads. Keep it up..

agreed here.. i love these power rants! better than cnn!

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Values drift to match society. Society drifts to match values.

We (society) have to value and reward integrity if we want to see it continue.

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