Sherlock by olga tereshenko d9qdidc
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Re: the Great Gun Control Debate, I received an email today from a help-qa.com user, and I will reply to it, keeping everything as short as possible .

. .

"I think a better approach on these discussions would be for
you two to challenge yourselves to not turn every opinion
into a partisan attack-If every sentence is presented as
'us vs. them, and I can't stand the evil other side' it is a waste to even post your response. Reign in your hate-step back if you can't be civil."

I agree. As Robert Heinlein said, "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." And ad hominem attacks are the last refuge of people who are losing an argument. But it's pretty much well-known that Leftists confuse hate with simply having a differing opinion.

"I would email this to SoCo to post as a come back from the propaganda you and Al are spinning:"

I consider it to be the truth. I consider to be propaganda what rich Leftists like George Soros are spending to flood the airwaves, social media and the mainstream media.

"*Do you honestly think your AR15 would stand up to F-14 Tomcats, equipped with AIM-54 Phoenix missiles or tactical nuclear weapons?*Do you think your AR15 will stop an M1 Abrams tank?"

The F-14 has been out of the inventory for about 20 years, and the Phoenix missile is an air-to-air missile, so in neither is likely to be a threat. Tactical nuclear weapons? M-1 Abrams tanks? If America has another civil war, you won't be able to use tactical nukes without killing Leftists and liberals as well, and M-1 Abrams tanks rolling through civilian neighborhoods isn't like to endear the government to anyone who hasn't yet chosen sides. You might also consider the Taliban--they've stood up to the world's superpowers with their AK-47s, rocket propelled grenades and improvised explosive devices (IEDs). In a civil war, you are going to be involved in urban combat, and you simply cannot bring highly destructive weapons to bear when the "enemy" is thoroughly mixed in with the rest of the population.

"If you can listen to those who have military experience likeyou do, it might show many want a compromise so we can all
be safer."

ALL of the people I know with military experience, with just one or two exceptions, feel the same way I do about gun control.

"http://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/977949481..."

No, sorry, those are not real hunters. They are shills. What's more, I've lived long enough to remember the anti-gunners coming after hunting rifles--calling them "high powered sniper weapons." Uh uh. These so-called hunters are utterly unconvincing.

"I had the local PD hold a weapon when there were
signs someone in my household would misuse it. Temporary loss of custody of firearms is something I support. I could have just as well left it with a trusted individual I knew personally."

Surprise, surprise. I agree with you. When someone has gone off the deep end, there needs to be a mechanism for impounding that person's firearms, if he or she has any. It MUST involve due process. It CANNOT be like the Veterans Administration or Social Security Administration entering people into the NICS database simply because they need help with their financial affairs. Look at taxes--they are so complicated that there is a multi-billion dollar industry devoted to doing people's taxes for them. If you need help with your taxes, should you lose your guns?

"We may not agree, but I would trust you to do this to let her know she has supporters on this topic."

Of course. We all have our various supporters.

"Ciao, friend."

Ciao! Yes, we can still be friends even though we're at opposite ends of the spectrum. The key is to not demonize or vilify those who have a different opinion. You know how the Left has demonized the NRA--and then they cry about NRA members, gun owners in general, and conservative politicians tuning them out. Who is going to listen after they've been called every name in the book and told that they don't care about America's children?

You know, we had a system in place to prevent the Florida shooter--and other people like him--from getting guns. A lot of people don't know what laws and systems are already in place. But for ANY system to work, people have to do their jobs. The FBI did NOT do its job, and the Broward County Sheriff's Department did NOT do its job, and the Obama administration put a program in place to reward police and sheriff's departments with federal funds for reducing the youth arrest rate. That's how the Florida shooter was able to have the cops visit him 39 times and never have a single arrest.

We were failed at every level by the people sworn to protect us--and now the Left is manipulating our children to march to take away their own rights!

Young David Hogg at the Parkland school is complaining that the school mandating clear backpacks is violating his First Amendment rights.

He called for more government--and he got it.

And now he doesn't like it!

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Since writing this post Sherlock may have helped people, but has not within the last four (4) days.
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people, place, opinion, agree, weapons
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Electric
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Help User wrote:
"I think a better approach on these discussions would be for
you two to challenge yourselves to not turn every opinion into a partisan attack - if every sentence is presented as 'Us VS Them'"

- In other words "Shut up."
In the course of natural dialouge between two speaking people it is not uncommon to retort to a specific spoken issue as a focal point.
Because the dynamics of writing are much different, a person may get easily lost when reading a response the length of an airline runway.
Breaking down the former sentences (or paragraphs) helps to solidify clarification.
I'm sorry if you don't like it, but that's not something I will change anytime soon.

Help User wrote:
"I would email this to SoCo to post as a come back from the propaganda you and Al are spinning:"

....Because the entire issue of gun control isn't "propaganda" and should have free reign breath after breath, unimpeded... Got it.
Uh...no...
People like to be told they are thinking....until you actually make them think.
Don't imagine that I can't see the opinion of the other persons view - I can, but why can't they see a view that goes slightly further than their fixation?
I do what I can for the sake of the better and I give it my all, but I do have an end. If the other person cannot (will not) see the greater implication....then I am happy to leave them with their opinion.

Help User wrote:
Reign in your hate - step back if you can't be civil.

- What Sherlock said, in general, but I would include this: Few people have the ability to separate hatred of a issue from the hatred of a person.
I've done a lot of waking away in my time from people that have different views and such, no problem.
But there are issues I do not kneel down for regardless of who presents it - it still doesn't mean I hate the person.
Take care, now, Anonymous Help user. I would still appreciate you all the same wether I knew you or not.

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Max
last online: 07/27, 11:05
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Tough times, but there has been tough times before. They dropped gun control in Canada some what over costs but it's not the "guns" that have been the problem.

Money, power and agenda's.
How does China control their guns and people? Yes, that doesn't work as an example.
I do not wish to be labelled and judged by a stranger. I welcome anybody to rate the performance of a governing body. Not the fall guy or person on the sign for the party. That is a distracting element of which will take you away from the real issue. Fake media is very destructive.
I swear to try and respect everyone's rights only if they are true.
We were given 10 simple rules by God...all have the same weight, but (mostly) everybody has free will and make their own choices.

Guns, dicks, money, power and greed. 2018 may be a better time. How would we know?

1581744157174 1581744149313 miss bot
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The claims that Mr. Soros paid anybody connected to the March for our Lives protests is not true.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/soros-paid-ma...

Sherlock by olga tereshenko d9qdidc
(11 hours after post)
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Snopes is thoroughly discredited as a fact checking site. The founder is being divorced by his wife for cheating and there are allegations of embezzlement--and it has now been taken over by corporate interests.

1581744157174 1581744149313 miss bot
last online: 03/19, 3:49
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Sherlock wrote:
Snopes is thoroughly discredited as a fact checking site. The founder is being divorced by his wife for cheating and there are allegations of embezzlement--and it has now been taken over by corporate interests.

So if Snopes said the sky is blue they are completely complicit in posting a lie.

Give me a break! The students from Parkland are not being controlled by any outside influences. They just want common sense gun laws. Period. The more you attempt to propagate right wing conspiracies, the less common sense you spew.

And the more you sound like your information comes from smoking mushrooms.

Sherlock by olga tereshenko d9qdidc
(13 hours after post)
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soco wrote:

Sherlock wrote:
Snopes is thoroughly discredited as a fact checking site. The founder is being divorced by his wife for cheating and there are allegations of embezzlement--and it has now been taken over by corporate interests.

So if Snopes said the sky is blue they are completely complicit in posting a lie.

Give me a break! The students from Parkland are not being controlled by any outside influences. They just want common sense gun laws. Period. The more you attempt to propagate right wing conspiracies, the less common sense you spew.

And the more you sound like your information comes from smoking mushrooms.

Check out this article about the mess that Snopes.com is in: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4730092...

Of COURSE the kids from Parkland are being controlled by outside interests! Do you think they just broke their piggy banks to fund cross country flights, hotel stays and meals far away from home?

Remember the JROTC cadet who had some differing opinions about questions that should be asked during the CNN town hall meeting? He was told by a CNN staffer to shut up and "follow the script."

"Common sense" gun laws are anything but. Examples: a past proposal to ban any ammunition that would penetrate a police officer's bulletproof vest. If it had passed, ALL hunting ammunition would have been outlawed, as they ALL can penetrate a vest designed to stop only handgun bullets. Another case in point: a proposal to ban any gun capable of accepting a magazine that held 30 or more rounds. If it had passed, it would have outlawed ALL magazine-fed firearms as any gun that can accept a 5-round magazine can also accept a 30-round magazine.

The country IS in a political crisis. The FBI has been caught red-handed giving Hillary Clinton a pass on her violation of national security laws. They wrote the memo exonerating her even before the investigation was completed--and that investigation was a sham. The deputy director's WIFE accepted $700,000 from Hillary Clinton for her political campaign--and the deputy director was supposed to be investigating Hillary Clinton. The FBI's own Office of Professional Responsibility recommended that McCabe be fired for gross lapses of professional ethics!

That's not a right-wing conspiracy. That's the facts. Read it again: the FBI's own Office of Professional Responsibility found McCabe guilty of gross misconduct!

We KNOW that George Soros is funding these marches. He has a million ways to trickle--or flood--money into these Left-wing causes. The movement registered as a 501c(3) organization--which means it doesn't have to disclose its donors. Some of them, however, include George Clooney, the washed-up actor who mocked Charlton Heston because Heston was suffering from Alzheimers, Oprah "Can't Hug Harvey Weinstein Enough" Winfrey, Leftist Michael Bloomberg and other Hollywood celebs whose mansions are surrounded by high walls and patrolled by armed guards.

Signs carried by the "March for Our Lives" marchers read, "We Wish Obama Had Taken Your Guns."

And don't forget Planned Parenthood--they are also in on the act. Planned Parenthood is, in my humble opinion, the vilest, most evil organization upon the face of the earth. As abortions are their biggest revenue generators, they push them and individual Planned Parenthood centers are recognized and rewarded by how many abortions they perform.

Too bad the 61 million unborn children aborted by Planned Parenthood didn't have somebody to march for THEIR lives.

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Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent is not a quote from Robert Heinlein, its a quote from Issac Asimov from the Foundation series...

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Nix
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Its kinda sad that when people rally and voice an opinion, they are seen as being controlled. I dont think they are at all. I think they are sick of going to school with the possibility of not going home. The Florida shooting is not the only incident with guns in schools this year. And thats the problem.

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The only time I hear about the "Dems want to take away your guns", is when the alt-right, NRA proponents bring it up.

NO ONE wants to take your gun away! But please convince me you need an assault rifle with 80 round clips AND a bump stock to go God damned quail hunting...!!!!!
AND AT AGE 18 !!!

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Nix
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In the UK, we dont ned to hunt with semi automatics, maybe americans need to improve their aim?

Sherlock by olga tereshenko d9qdidc
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soco wrote:
The only time I hear about the "Dems want to take away your guns", is when the alt-right, NRA proponents bring it up.

NO ONE wants to take your gun away! But please convince me you need an assault rifle with 80 round clips AND a bump stock to go God damned quail hunting...!!!!!
AND AT AGE 18 !!!

Well, Soco, I don't know anyone who goes quail hunting with a rifle--any kind of rifle. I am reminded of Joe Biden talking about going deer hunting, saying that you would take your double-barreled shotgun and crawl around on your hands and knees until you saw a deer. I don't know anyone who hunts deer with a double-barrel shotgun. With all due respect, both comments suggest a lack of knowledge when it comes to firearms. And that's one of our biggest complaints--people with a lack of knowledge coming to us and telling us what we "need" for hunting or target competition or self-defense.

But as far as relating an AR-15 to hunting, we are always compelled to remind people making such arguments that the Second Amendment to the Bill of Rights to the United States Constitution is NOT about hunting. It's not about duck hunting, or deer hunting, or any other kind of hunting. It's about the right of the PEOPLE to keep firearms suitable for self-defense and defense of the country.

And the fact is that Democrats ARE talking gun confiscation. In her 2016 failed bid for the Presidency, Hillary Clinton said that she'd like to take a look at Australia's gun confiscation program. The Australian government called it a buy-back, but that's a misnomer since the government was't buying anything back--it didn't own the citizens' guns in the first place. Australia simply turned to its gun registration lists and told those people who now had "banned" guns to turn them in--for some pittance of compensation. That one remark cost her the Presidency.

We tried the Democrats' Assault Weapons Ban in 1994. It didn't work. We still got Columbine out of it. And the overall crime rate was not influenced by it one single whit--not one atom.

Bump stocks? You can have 'em. I would not be caught dead with one. I am not in favor of any device that helps people get around the law. I see them as something that only wastes ammo--expensive ammo. Which reminds me--Democrats are trying to get bills passed to require background checks for buying ammunition. I can imagine the lineups at the cash register now. Of course, Democrats want to make it harder to own a gun and shoot it--they figure that if they manufacture enough red tape, fees, waiting times, etc., etc., that the average person will say to hell with it and will give up his or her gun.

Back to that "80 round clip." Well, there's no such thing as an 80-round "clip." Clips are little metal strips that hold cartridges by their rims for *********insertion into a rifle's magazine. There's that problem again--people who don't know guns telling us what we need to do.

Age 18? I personally don't care if the age is upped to 21--but I'd make exceptions for people in the military.

What I haven't seen from any anti-gun people are calls to hold the FBI accountable for their failure to act on a credible tip about the Florida shooter, or to hold the Broward County deputy accountable for failing to take action or to repeal the Obama-era "Promise Program" that gave police departments federal funding for reducing youth arrests.

What about we stop shielding youthful criminals and put their juvenile crimes into the National Instant Check System database? Does anybody really think that a punk who got arrested 15 times while a juvenile is magically going to turn into a responsible adult at age 18?

And what about getting the people off our streets who have demonstrated a capacity for violence against others? Take the case of the young men in Canada who recently beat up an autistic man. Shouldn't they be hauled in for a psychological evaluation to determine their further capacity for violence against innocent people? Shouldn't they be locked up if found to be a danger to the public? We need to ditch antiquated notions of crime and punishment. If somebody is found to be a dangerous psychopath--shouldn't we have the mechanisms to take that person out of the mainstream before he starts piling up a body count?

We also have to do a better job in the US in dealing with mental health. The ability to see a counselor or therapist or psychiatrist should not depend upon someone's job or insurance policy. It is in society's best interests for people who need help to get it!

Sherlock by olga tereshenko d9qdidc
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Nix wrote:
In the UK, we dont ned to hunt with semi automatics, maybe americans need to improve their aim?

Well, you know, Nix, that after that Dunblane thing in Scotland, the UK government went nuts and outlawed all kinds of guns.

People hunt with semi-automatics for a number of reasons--and, by the way, in the States there are limits on how many rounds of ammunition your hunting gun can hold while out in the field. Game departments don't want people "spraying and praying."

But semi-automatics have one key advantage over other guns: their gas operated actions reduce recoil. That's important for recoil-challenged people. The new breed of semi-automatics are also as accurate as most bolt-action rifles.

But back to recoil. Shortly after shooting my "elephant gun" a number of times, one of my retinas started to detach. I had to get it tacked back in with a laser. That elephant gun was in .416 Remington magnum caliber--and its recoil was quite fierce. And while I can psychologically handle heavy recoil, my eyes cannot do so any longer.

That's one reason a new cartridge, the 6.5mm Creedmoor, has become so popular for long range shooting competitions and hunting: it has the same trajectory as a .300 Winchester magnum, but only about a quarter of the recoil.

Put another way, you can go to the range and shoot a few boxes of 6.5 Creedmoor--especially if you are shooting it in an Armalite (AR) type of platform--and not have a bruised shoulder. If you shoot a few boxes of .300 magnum ammunition, you are very likely to have a bruised shoulder. And if you shoot a few boxes of .416 Remington magnum ammo, you may end up in the ER!

Truthfully, I haven't hunted for a number of years now. The only animal I'd really want to hunt is the coyote--because they are nasty pieces of work that kill and eat people's dogs and cats, and even attack children. We need to thin out their ranks, as they have expanded their original ranges many times over.

But when I go coyote hunting, it will be with an AR--because of the high degree of accuracy and light recoil. A magazine capacity of 10 rounds or so should do just fine, as that will provide the ability to track a running coyote and give you several chances to get him.

The last deer I had in the crosshairs of my .30/06 I let go. I could see she had been wounded by another hunter, and some dogs had been chasing her. I did not want to add to her troubles.

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And what about getting the people off our streets who have demonstrated a capacity for violence against others? Take the case of the young men in Canada who recently beat up an autistic man. Shouldn't they be hauled in for a psychological evaluation to determine their further capacity for violence against innocent people? Shouldn't they be locked up if found to be a danger to the public? We need to ditch antiquated notions of crime and punishment. If somebody is found to be a dangerous psychopath--shouldn't we have the mechanisms to take that person out of the mainstream before he starts piling up a body count?

This is rare and if you look at the fucktards..they were not true born Canadians.
But the fake news and lack of real punishment does seem to be problem. It was always there but now we have it on a camera easier. Soco has valid points but limited power, Sherlock as well and reading the replies I hope everyone understands whom the real enemy is.

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Sherlock wrote:

Nix wrote:
In the UK, we dont ned to hunt with semi automatics, maybe americans need to improve their aim?

Well, you know, Nix, that after that Dunblane thing in Scotland, the UK government went nuts and outlawed all kinds of guns.

People hunt with semi-automatics for a number of reasons--and, by the way, in the States there are limits on how many rounds of ammunition your hunting gun can hold while out in the field. Game departments don't want people "spraying and praying."

But semi-automatics have one key advantage over other guns: their gas operated actions reduce recoil. That's important for recoil-challenged people. The new breed of semi-automatics are also as accurate as most bolt-action rifles.

But back to recoil. Shortly after shooting my "elephant gun" a number of times, one of my retinas started to detach. I had to get it tacked back in with a laser. That elephant gun was in .416 Remington magnum caliber--and its recoil was quite fierce. And while I can psychologically handle heavy recoil, my eyes cannot do so any longer.

That's one reason a new cartridge, the 6.5mm Creedmoor, has become so popular for long range shooting competitions and hunting: it has the same trajectory as a .300 Winchester magnum, but only about a quarter of the recoil.

Put another way, you can go to the range and shoot a few boxes of 6.5 Creedmoor--especially if you are shooting it in an Armalite (AR) type of platform--and not have a bruised shoulder. If you shoot a few boxes of .300 magnum ammunition, you are very likely to have a bruised shoulder. And if you shoot a few boxes of .416 Remington magnum ammo, you may end up in the ER!

Truthfully, I haven't hunted for a number of years now. The only animal I'd really want to hunt is the coyote--because they are nasty pieces of work that kill and eat people's dogs and cats, and even attack children. We need to thin out their ranks, as they have expanded their original ranges many times over.

But when I go coyote hunting, it will be with an AR--because of the high degree of accuracy and light recoil. A magazine capacity of 10 rounds or so should do just fine, as that will provide the ability to track a running coyote and give you several chances to get him.

The last deer I had in the crosshairs of my .30/06 I let go. I could see she had been wounded by another hunter, and some dogs had been chasing her. I did not want to add to her troubles.

Thats true, the governement did go nuts, but guns are not completely banned here, its very easy to go on shoot, theyre just very restricted. Fortunately we dont have many dangerous animals here, I think the biggest threat is actually the badger!

Sherlock by olga tereshenko d9qdidc
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I remember reading about how some British veterans had to take their Lee-Enfields (bolt action rifles in .303 British) and have them de-miled, i.e., rendered inoperable. I thought that was terrible. The British have built some of the finest sporting rifles in the world, such as the Holland & Holland double rifles.

I will let the badgers alone. Nobody wants any truck with a badger!

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