Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
DocteurRalph
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Nobody else is going to start a post, looks like I'll have to talk to myself.

Okay I know we've got a lot of crazy people here, has anyone ever attended NA classes.. that's Narcotics Anonymous to the uninitiated. They're just like AA for alcohol I suppose, although I've never been to one of those.

I've been to a few of the NA meetings and they seem like a colossal waste of time. First of all only one person can talk at a time, no questions or exchange among the group. You just talk or "share" as they call it and nobody is supposed to talk about what you said either.

Secondly they don't just want you to quit doing hard drugs, they think you need to abstain from everything... uh huh. No beer, no left handed cigarettes, NOTHING! Oh and they are big on GOD. You can't do this yourself cough cough you need help from above.

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DocteurRalph edited this post .

Nobody else is going to start a post, looks like I'll have to talk to myself. ¬ ¬ Okay I know we've got a lot of crazy people here, has anyone ever attended NA classes.. that's Narcotics Anonymous to the uninitiated. There just like AA for alcohol I suppose, although IThey're just like AA for alcohol I suppose, although I've never been to one of those. ¬ ¬ I've been to a few of the NA meetings and they seem like a colossal waste of time. First of all only one person can talk at a time, no questions or exchange among the group. You just talk or "share" as they call it and nobody is supposed to talk about what you said either.¬ ¬ Secondly they don't just want you to quit doing hard drugs, they think you need to abstain from everything... uh huh. NotNo a beer, notno any left handed cigarettes, NOTHING! Oh and they are big on GOD. You can't do this yourself *cough cough* you need help from above.

Electric
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(6 hours after post)
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If I ever had any addictions (beyond cigarettes), I managed to quit them all on my own.
The one thing NA is right about is God.
Even as much of an a$$#o!e as I may be, I've always kept close to God.
The very thing NA is unaware of is; if you have Him....you don't need them.

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(8 hours after post)
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Yeah well I need them. I have to go to 50 meetings in the next year... sooo. I'm still wondering how that works, I never even told them my name when I went on my own. Now I have been ordered by a court to attend, looks like I'm going to make a bunch of new friends.

Happy earth
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Having to go kind of stinks. At least you might meet some good people.

Electric
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So, I'm wondering....
You sound torn between your free-will and the court order. I get that.
Would you feel the need to attend if it weren't court ordered?
------
And....what happened that would cause the court to direct you to NA, anyhow?

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(20 hours after post)
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It's long story, let's just say I failed a field sobriety test and blew a 0.00% alcohol level. Blood tests ensued and when they came back it was bad. On a brighter note lots of rock stars like Tom Petty and Prince have died recently with not much more of what we doing in their system than I had. So I guess I feel kind of lucky.

But the whole "need to attend" thing is the problem. All this happened back in September and I flushed a couple hundred dollars worth of dope and went to meetings on my own. I've been off the hard stuff since then and really don't want to go back down that path.

The weird part is that going to these meetings and listening to people talk about doing dope kind of makes me miss it, if that makes any sense at all. Plus it doesn't make me feel bad like I guess it's supposed to. Everyone "shares" these horrible things they were doing to support their habits and how they were neglecting everyone in their lives and couldn't keep a job and were homeless etc... Not me. I'm kicking ***ass. I can stay out of my mind most of the time and still deal with reality better than most straight people. I just have a little trouble driving...

D
(1 day after post)
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I've never been to any of those meetings, but I do understand about the constant talk making you miss the substances you were abusing.

I went through similar when I switched to vaping. Everyone I knew either smoked, or wanted to discuss my choice to switch, and I finally had to pretty much isolate myself from everyone for a while.

Maybe you can bring the issue up at the meeting, and ask others how they deal with it?

314sftf
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Wow, im sorry to hear your troubles. Ive never been to an NA meeting, I almost went to one that supported people who were related to people who were alcohol abusers. I get that talking about it may make you miss it, but as far as i understand, people share the bad parts of it, not the 'highs'.

One of the things that would always put me off these places would be the heavy God aspect.

But maybe it will be good thing, would rehab be a better option?

Happy earth
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If you have to go, you may as well make the best of it. If you find that it's making you miss the hard stuff, bring that up in a meeting. Maybe it's a common problem and people will have pointers for you.

Electric
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I would let the group leader know that focusing on the issue of "drugs" and talking about them brings on more cravings for them than just going through basic withdrawals.
Maybe bring up the other points you stated and see what their response is...
Sadly, it's probably their way or "the highway." If that's the case, be a good soldier and give them what they expect. Be outstanding, like Bill & Ted would say; "Be excellent."
.....Lie like a mo-fo.

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(1 day after post)
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I'm not going through withdrawal or anything like that, I've been clean for six months and really don't miss it much. I went to meetings for a month and decided it wasn't really helping me, if anything it made me think about dope more.

What really got me was this guy who came in straight from a rehab facility that he had been kicked out of... he was late to the meeting, he was still high AF, and I was sitting there thinking he should be sharing or something. I know everyone else knew he was messed up. He couldn't hold his eyes open and his nose was running the whole nine yards. That's the last time I went.

And really the first meeting I went to I probably looked a lot like him, in fact I know I did because two people came up to me after the meeting and said "you're still using, aren't you"? I guess that's what the place is for, moral support. It's not really their way or the highway, it's pretty much come on in and hang out and listen to people feel sorry for themselves. I'm not really good at that, but I guess that's what I'm doing here... maybe it will be different now that I have to go.

Oh I'll be excellent, it's not that big of a deal I just felt like ranting. I just think the place could improve, I felt like I was at a Baptist church not among friends with similar problems. Maybe I should start my own.

Sherlock by olga tereshenko d9qdidc
(1 day after post)
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Yes, I'll bet those meetings are a real bore! But they do seem to have a degree of success.

My last post was deleted--it was there when I posted it from the pub!

Wish you the very best and a very quick recovery!

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(2 days after post)
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Thanks Sherlock, I'm doing fine. I just like to color outside the lines a little too much.

Yorick
(3 days after post)
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been to AA.. by court order bout 15 yrs ago.. mandatory 10 sessions.. by the 5th meeting i began to open up and shared a open letter among the group explaining where i was coming from.. with that presented i was really seeking some sort of interest in recovery..they all cheered me on and came to me asking if they could keep/ make copies of that letter.. i never felt so wanted.

but tell ya what.. after the meeting they were all outside cliquey and laughing ignoring me when i tried to talk to them.. .they kinda shunned on me about making this effort..and told me each to their own how i can do anything i want when i was pitching what do i do with myself... :X i did not.. know how to react to that.. it was pretty shady.. n ******fucked up for me.

after the rest of the required attendence.. i made several attempts to socially relate .. but with my anxiety and crippling efforts i came off like a stumbling weirdo..

guess i was a lost soul.. i would say i went to the wrong AA or something.. im a hearing impaired man here .. (incase yall forgot again). everyone feels like life is a one way streak..with hit n misses.. i seem to interrupt that irl. its a known fact nobody likes to repeat themselves when i didnt catch what they said. well then .. hell with you.

i like the online world .. cuz i dont miss out anything.

god.. as a former athiest...oh i believe in such thing. does he talk to me.. no.. does he show me stuff.. sorta... does he deliver sure.. in a helluva vauge way.. science calls it human instinct - or what i call guts if you agree.. god is not the problem.. people are. .. and this place so far.. allows us to be our true selves imo. ( i hope )

Animation2 2
(3 days after post)
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Sorry to hear about your troubles, Doc. I never imagined you were into the drugs.

I have not been much of a drug user, but I have been around and close to many who were. Almost all of them say that after they get clean, it's a daily struggle (less of a struggle as days...and years...go by) to say "no" to the drugs. Many of them say that when they drink or smoke, it makes them want the drugs more

I wish you luck in your efforts to get clean. And to stay that way

20201024 182842
(3 days after post)
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I'm an alcoholic which will never change for the rest of my life. I did the 28 days in patient treatment which helped me on the way to change they way my life was going. Those classes give you the tools that you can use to help you, not all of them are going to work, the god thing didnt happen for me but what did is that I am the one that makes the decision, right or wrong, good or bad. I am the one that made that decision to cause problems, no matter what others did or said. Its me and I had to change. I learned in those classes what worked for me and thats what they are for to give you options that you can use to make decisions that will help you in life and stay out of trouble.

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(3 days after post)
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I don't think I've been completely straight for a week since I was 12 years old honestly. And yet I'll be 60 in a little over a year and this is the first time it has ever caused me any trouble...

Heck I went to see a probation officer yesterday and all he wanted was money and for me to sign up for some classes that they give, that also cost a lot of money. I figured he was going to take a urine sample and see what the hell was going on in my life. I mean he's looking at a police report that says I was driving around with enough fentanyl in my system to kill a lot of people and he just wants cash. I guess that's what it's all about.

Oh and I went to an NA meeting and the door was locked. It's in this cabin beside a church and there was already a young girl waiting there so we talked for a while. She looked kind of scared. She had blue black hair with a big blonde streak and a pierced nose and eyebrows and here I am an old man with gray hair. I think she thought I was a pastor or something. Finally she asked me if I knew anything about a meeting in the cabin and I said yeah they are supposed to have a Narcotics Anonymous meeting, that's why I'm here. She looked surprised and said really? Yup...

So she said she had never been to one and kind of laughed again, I could tell she was out there. Actually these meetings seem like a great place to meet new contacts, pfffft. Yeah finally it was like almost 10 minutes late and another person came up and tried the door and we all looked at each other and left. So much for HELP from anyone that is supposed to give it.

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(3 days after post)
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And yeah TheClue didn't you just post a picture of about 100 gallons of wine you're making? That's kind of tempting for someone who's had trouble with alcohol in the past. I guess you've figured out a way to exert the proper amount of self control.

See that's what I don't like about NA and why I made this post. They don't want me to drink a beer while watching the Superbowl because they think if I dip my toe in the water I'll suddenly jump in over my head. I've been dipping that toe in the water my whole life without drowning. But yeah I went a little too far outside the lines or I wouldn't be in the position I'm in.

Animation2 2
(4 days after post)
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I agree with you about the people who are "supposed" to help....I think that part of the problem in society today is that everyone capitalizes on everything. THINGS have become more important than PEOPLE. It's bothersome to me; I think people are amazing and I love to be the one to help someone out and give that hand so that they can get a foot up. And I'd love to have a real friend nearby who would do the same for me. But people are not only unwilling to help these days; but also the people who NEED help are not able to ask for it and/or accept it anymore. I think it's because too many have gotten "burned."

Does your wife know about all of the things you're into? Do your kids? Does it affect them? Maybe they are the key to you getting things fixed. Maybe if they show "tough love" and you have an ultimatum with them, it will make you want to get clean because you want to keep them in your life (??) Also do you WANT to be clean? As I've gotten older, I've noticed that the "hard" life is too hard. You know...the energy levels are not what they used to be. Neither are the knees, back, hips...you know what I mean. So maybe that is part of why you are having an issue with it now: it could be your age....(??) Fentanyl, though. Wow.

The people I've known who were pretty heavy drug users seemed to have brain (cognitive/reasoning/thinking/mathematical/grammatical/tenacity/self reflection/comprehension) issues. Their brains didn't work the way they were supposed to; too many brain cells damaged, I suppose. But you seem to be sharper than a tack, so maybe it's been a good thing for you ;) I'm really just kidding. Drugs are rarely a good thing....

I do believe in God. I believe that being truly connected with God and truly trying to live a life he would be proud of...makes people want to be better people. But too many people are lacsadaisical about their relationship with God, leading to incredulity regarding him.

The scenario about the young girl being surprised about the ol' geezer being in NA is sorta funny :)

Best of luck in finding the help you need. Be careful. Even though you've managed to live this lifestyle since you were 12, doesn't mean that it won't catch up with you.

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(4 days after post)
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You're right, I'm too old for the lifestyle I've become accustomed to. That's a lot of it and I know I need to slow down. And I was never really into opioids before but the older and more in pain my body gets the more I like them. Plus there's a bigger supply of them and they are more powerful than they ever were before...

As far as the wife and kids they aren't stupid. They know me better than I know myself. It's just that I have been doing insane things forever and they just expect me to keep being myself. I'm a good provider. Compared to 20 years ago I am relatively straight though, so they were really surprised when I finally tripped up and got caught. And yeah I am feeling the tough love as we speak. I don't know where my car keys are and apparently it's going to stay like that until I am legal. And the wife said something about how we could have gone to the Bahamas for what I spent on lawyers this month. Another day in paradise.

20201024 182842
(4 days after post)
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DocteurRalph wrote:
And yeah TheClue didn't you just post a picture of about 100 gallons of wine you're making? That's kind of tempting for someone who's had trouble with alcohol in the past. I guess you've figured out a way to exert the proper amount of self control.

See that's what I don't like about NA and why I made this post. They don't want me to drink a beer while watching the Superbowl because they think if I dip my toe in the water I'll suddenly jump in over my head. I've been dipping that toe in the water my whole life without drowning. But yeah I went a little too far outside the lines or I wouldn't be in the position I'm in.

It took me 10 years to know my limits, its not a quick and easy road to travel but in time I made it to where I am at, now I am secure in myself so that I can make wine and beer and not worry about it, it has no control over me. :-)

Animation2 2
(4 days after post)
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I'm glad your wife took the keys. She doesn't want you to die or be hurt badly in a car crash...or hurt someone else.

And yeah, the lawyer fees are tough to stomach. But so is the cost of the drugs and alcohol you've been doing for so long. If the lawyer fees could get you guys a vaca to the Bahamas, imagine what you could have done with all that money over the years :)

I'm hooked on a certain coffee from a certain coffee shop (NOT Starbucks) and I get it every day. Well, not really...I try to cut down all the time. But then I start to get it three times a week, four times a week, and every day. Sometimes more than once a day.

And it's not awful to have those coffees. What is awful is that they are $6/each. And that's $180/month. That doesn't include the tip, so add another $30 for $210/month. $2500/year. And I almost have a heart attack. What a frivolous waste! We could do a lot of more fun things with that money. It's when I save my receipts that I stop getting the coffees. I look at a month's worth of receipts and force myself to cut down to once a week or something like that (and I really ENJOY the coffee SO MUCH more when I only get it once a week!) Then the cycle starts all over...haha

Anyway, my point is that drugs and alcohol are much more pricey. You could do so much more with that money...but it's not about the money as much as it is about the safety. You need to be safe. It seems like you are your family's rock.

Finally, I DO understand the older pains....I have a narcotic that I get from a doc once in a while for migraines. I really only get 1-2 migraines a year. So I don't use the meds that often. But there have been a couple times when I've used them for things NOT related to migraines. When I've had a little ache and pain...related usually to my knee from all the years of skiing...or when I want to "check out" for a little while, I take one. Honestly, I've only taken them in the wrong way less than half a dozen times in the years, but still. I get what you are saying....it's a very attractive idea.

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(4 days after post)
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My wife has never worked or paid a bill in the 32 years we've been together, and money has never been a problem. In fact she goes on so many vacations my friends and her family tease her and say she is on "stay-cation". Hell half the time she goes with her family or friends and I stay home and work.

Sherlock by olga tereshenko d9qdidc
(4 days after post)
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Bahamas-pajamas!

I really feel for you having to deal with a "system" that really doesn't care about people, and with NA meetings where the facilitator doesn't show up.

But, if not for the way things worked out, you might be dead right now. And who would then shoot that beautiful Model 100?

You know--I think you do need a vacation--even if it's only 100 miles away. Why not start planning something right now?

That fentanyl is really nasty stuff--some 100 times more powerful than morphine! And the body count from it just keeps rising.

You dodged a bullet--you're like that 12-pointer who just had some hair clipped by that errant .308 bullet!

I think you hit on something--you've worked too hard, too long, without a break of some kind. So plan that vacation in the Bahamas--or an Alaska cruise in your pajamas!

Animation2 2
(5 days after post)
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DocteurRalph wrote:
My wife has never worked or paid a bill in the 32 years we've been together, and money has never been a problem. In fact she goes on so many vacations my friends and her family tease her and say she is on "stay-cation". Hell half the time she goes with her family or friends and I stay home and work.

Sherlock wrote:

I think you hit on something--you've worked too hard, too long, without a break of some kind. So plan that vacation in the Bahamas--or an Alaska cruise in your pajamas!

^^^^^^^^ Yep

I don't really think it's fair for your wife to go on all the vacations without you. Where is your chance to unwind, see the world, and sleep in??

Again, you're their rock. But maybe you need to bend a little bit and relax for yourself and your own well being.

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(1 week after post)
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So I went to jail this weekend for the first time, had to do 41 hours for my special crime and it was an eye opener. I swear there's more dope in jail than on the street. I was in a pod with 15 other guys and half of them were on heroin, or probably fentanyl. Half of what people think is another drug these days is fentanyl.

Anyway two people overdosed while I was there, one kept itching his face until it was all cut up and bleeding. The other guy fell flat out and was carried away in an ambulance after the other prisoners threw him in the shower to try to wake him up to no avail. So then at about midnight the guards came in an made us all go outside while they tore up the bunk beds and searched the place looking for dope. It was FREEZING... yeah it's against the law to leave your dog outside if it's below freezing around here but apparently you can leave inmates outside in short sleeve shirts for an hour or two no problem.

Of course they didn't find anything even though they strip searched us all before they let us back in the cell and piss tested half of them. Well, not me. I'm just an old man "weekender" virgin to the system so they kind of laughed and asked me how I was enjoying my stay while I was standing there shivering uncontrollably. Maybe they just didn't want to see me naked, that's happened a lot since I turned 50... Yeah fun times.

To be perfectly honest it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Everyone was respectful of me and there was cable TV and even the food was good. Somebody had snuck in some instant coffee too so I traded my breakfasts for coffee and made all kinds of friends. Giving away food is a great way to make friends in jail it turns out.

But yeah the next morning after the search and the freeze out it was business as usual. People were crawling under their covers and making loud snorting noises and then walking around like zombies, nodding out and falling asleep while standing up in mid-sentence. Made me wonder where these guys get all the money and where the dope comes from. Has to be the guards, doesn't it? But I'm the menace to society that needed to be locked up, right.

Anyway I went in Friday night and was out before noon on Sunday to watch football. I got a good dinner of chili and grilled cheese sandwiches and a show to boot... The funniest thing I heard was one of the inmates asking them why they were drug testing him. He laughed and said "what are you going to do, throw me in jail MFers"? At least he still had his sense of humor.

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(1 week after post)
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And why isn't Helpbot trying to keep me from killing myself? Stuck up *****bitch...

D
(1 week after post)
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Just hang in there...sounds like the part that could've been the worst is behind you, and you're more prepared than ever for whatever is next.

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(1 week after post)
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No the worst part is not being able to drive for a year... I'm thinking about getting one of those motorized bicycles. They go close to 30 mph and are pretty cheap, under $1,000 for a good one. Anybody know anything about them? lol https://saferwholesale.net/amy/gsi/80ccMotorize...

Sherlock by olga tereshenko d9qdidc
(1 week after post)
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I've seen those motorized bikes--heck, I'd like to have one myself!

Your experiences show just how stupid it is to put someone in jail who has had problems with drugs. I've always said that the war on drugs is a war on people. Those who have had problems with drugs need rehabilitation, not incarceration!

Yep, it's amazing how people in jail and prison get drugs. It HAS to be the guards!

Can you ride a moped? When I'm in Africa, you see millions of them. They are the chief means of travel. In Toronto tonight I saw a guy on an electric scooter--it is cold as hell and there is snow everywhere, and he was on a scooter!

Happy earth
(1 week after post)
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A lot of kids under sixteen in my town ride around on electric bikes and scooters. I have my doubts about safety, but they seem reliable enough for going around town, and a lot faster than walking.

They look like fun too.

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(1 week after post)
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You know when I was in jail I was thinking a lot about what you just said Sherlock. Most of these people are not violent, they aren't really hurting anyone but themselves. In fact in the 1800's anyone could go to the pharmacy and buy laudanum over the counter and take as much of it as they wanted. It was a mixture of opium and morphine and codeine, very popular among women. In the 1890s, the Sears and Roebuck catalogue included an offer for a syringe and small amount of cocaine for $1.50.


Suddenly around 1914 all of these things became illegal but they didn't go away. It just created a black market run by criminals and filled the jails with people who had never broken any other laws. It also made the drugs more dangerous because the purity was unknown after companies like Bayer stopped making them.

And yeah I can ride a moped. Any vehicle under a certain horsepower that has a maximum speed less than 30 can be driven by people without a license. I don't have that much of a problem getting around actually. My son works for me and lives with me and I'm with him all day every day and he just drives me around. If I go someplace after work my wife always goes too, that hasn't changed and she never let me drive even before I lost my privileges. She doesn't drink and whenever we go out I do, so she has just always driven wherever we go.

It's like you said smiley, those motorized bicycles just look like a lot of fun! ha ha ha.. They have some electric ones too that are more reliable but slower and with less of a range. I already have a mountain bike I ride a lot to keep in shape but I can't go up hills at 20mph. One of these would be a whole lot nicer, and now I have a good excuse to buy one.

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(1 week after post)
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Sherlock by olga tereshenko d9qdidc
(2 weeks after post)
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We should go back to 1913 where drugs are concerned.

Just saw some deer from the Polar Express!

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(2 weeks after post)
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58% of people incarcerated are non-violent drug offenders. It does seem ridiculous. When they outlawed alcohol gangsters took over the cities and so they legalized it so they could tax it and get the criminals out of the business. Seems like they could do the same with other drugs.

Sherlock by olga tereshenko d9qdidc
(2 weeks after post)
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I am all for legalizing marijuana, and others as well. I would just try to get rid of some of the nastier ones. And I would go after the cartels. It looks like a past president of Mexico was in the pay of at least one cartel. Drugs will never go away as long as the cartels can buy politicians.

Dr. ralph club zps9ornptsl
(2 weeks after post)
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When drugs are illegal the smugglers bring in the most potent thing they can find to make it easier to transport. During prohibition beer was nearly impossible to find but 100 proof liquor was everywhere. Legalizing alcohol made it possible for people to use alcohol that was a lot weaker and it actually improved the general health of people, cirrhosis of the liver became less prevalent. I think the same would be true of opioids, everyone wouldn't be overdosing on fentanyl they would be using something with a known strength that helped them with their pain without killing them.

Happy earth
(2 weeks after post)
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One of my relatives died of an overdose. Another died of complications related to alcoholism. They're both dead, no difference.

I don't know of anyone dying from weed. If we must have intoxicants, I'd rather they were safer ones.

Animation2 2
(3 weeks after post)
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I'm sorry you had to go through all that, Doc. I do agree that people who are on drugs need help versus being "thrown away." They have issues to work through.

I also agree that weed isn't necessarily a bad thing if used responsibly, just like alcohol. I rarely drink and I haven't smoked weed since college, but I have a friend who beat breast cancer and went through chemo. She used CBD or had a doobie once in a while for stress, to stimulate appetite, and to relax/relieve pain.

As for the motorized bicycles: I've seen them ridden by tons of people in town and they look like they are a blast to ride, but they are loud.

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