Sorry. This is going to be LOOOOOONG:

It is crazy. Our relationship is sort of complicated and I'm not sure how much detail to go into here, but there have been two times where we have discussed divorce...and it's really mostly been me who discussed it.

First time was when we were married for 10 years and I just couldn't take his lack of empathy and emotion anymore (he's SUPER non emotional, even toward me and the kids. Doesn't show anger, which is good; but also rarely shows love or concern, either) Anyway, we got into our biggest ever fight (and really only I fought because he is so non committal). I threw a chair down on the floor and stormed out of the house, got in the car, and drove. I ended up in Kansas, got a hotel room, and stayed in the hotel for 2 days, praying and crying and trying to figure out "where to go from here..." I am a strong Christian, and I do feel as if marriage is sacred. I went back home, but he hadn't even bothered to try to find me while I was gone for the 2 days and never mentioned the fight or my disappearance, which made me frustrated. So I decided to move out/started to look at condos for sale. I was in school at the time, working on my master's degree, and he said that he would pay my mortgage and any expenses until I was out of school because he wanted me to be okay and the kids to have the same standard of living when they were with me as they did with him. I know that is showing care/concern, but the way he said it, it was like he was being "dutiful."

Two things happened...number one, when I told a realtor that I was divorcing, she went and got me a copy of "The Love Dare," and handed it to me (it was in her trunk). Second, I felt like...what kind of guy pays all expenses to make sure everyone is okay...what a good guy. Maybe it can work.

The next time was about three years ago, when we were fighting (again, really just me)...I was just trying to get some emotions out and to have someone love me; validate and empathize with some things that happened in my childhood that still sometimes make me sad. (sometimes something will make demons surface and memories are sometimes hard to deal with) He is soooooo non emotional about this stuff....I'm sobbing and he walks out of the room. (and believe me: I do NOT cry very often at all. I don't find much use in it. I'd rather wipe my face, get up, move on and get something accomplished. It takes a lot for me to actually CRY). So, when he walked out of the room in my time of need, I yelled at him that we need to get counseling. And then I said, "Really YOU need to get counseling so that you can learn how to live life fuller...with all the hard, nasty, awful, shitty, weird, confusing, crazy, wonderful, beautiful, shiny emotions that are involved with LIVING!" He said he did feel emotions and that he would go to counseling. But we never did and the next day was the same ol same ol... settling into the routine....and I got counseling; he didn't/we didn't.

I've NEVER cheated on him. I'm really good with money and I make our money grow into things that are pretty spectacular....from paying things off to investing to enhancing our life pretty well to closing on our 6th house in March (as long as we don't divorce...) He's awful with money. When we met I had 2 houses, a NEW car, no debt (other than mortgages), and a little in savings. He had nothing in savings, no car, no house, and over $80k in debt. I was 28/he was 42. I pulled him/us out of that icky scenario and made things better....

I know I don't work outside the home much, and I really feel guilty about it sometimes. However,I've had PT and temp jobs pretty often over the years. In the last 3 years, I babysit for over a dozen families and tutor anywhere from 6-8 kids at any given time. I make up my kids' curriculum (that I hope to sell one day), homeschool four kids, manage our properties, buy and sell our properties, mystery shop, and our kids are in sooo many things and I coordinate everything and taxi everyone around. I have to say that my whole life...whatever I decide to do...I do the best I can, and I end up excelling at whatever it is. I have a master's degree in psychology and a master's degree in education. So I've been pretty successful in raising well adjusted, happy, healthy, well behaved, smart kids. I'm working on a book. It's 400 pages and I have to actually pare it down... I have a good story to tell.

Anyway, I don't know if part of the problem is that he wants me to go to work full time...? Every time I ask or mention getting a job, he says that he wants me to stay home and do what I'm doing. He tells me that I make enough money by being home and doing the things I mentioned....and still have supper on the table and the kids are doing well. So he likes that, I suppose. But at the same time, he wants to retire soon, and he can't retire if I'm not working somewhere.

I also sometimes feel like he settled for me. He might have wanted someone far different from me...he's never said that. I know he has never cheated on me. So IDK!

I guess you're right, Smiley. It is showing emotion. Though he didn't say it with emotion. It was, "Hey, do you want to go get a coffee and drive to the new neighborhood with me? We can talk about getting a divorce in the car"

We always talk about anything important in the car; away from the kids.

We also spend quite a few afternoons when he gets off work driving around town while we sip a coffee. Talking in the car about things that need to be discussed.

IDK why he would want to drive to the new neighborhood. We won't be closing on a house if there is a divorce.

It was just weird the way he brought it up....like it's "the usual..."

We both know everyone's lifestyle would change if I went to work outside the home. It would change with a divorce, too. Both would be drastic changes.

We just spent $2500.00 in November, with an attorney, to develop a trust...and why?

^^^ This is just me trying to bolster myself. I realize that I did not pull out out of that debt; it took both of us.

I also realize I am not the only one responsible for raising our kids the way that they turned out. Part of it is their own personalities and of course, the home environment overall has helped them develop into who they are: their father included

Thank you NaCtHoMan,

I think that you will find someone great. I think it's harder for today's youth to find long term good relationships because of all the opportunity to cheat with online stuff; because of the fact that youth are less comfortable in face to face situations than they are in online situations, and the fact that everything today seems...temporary.

Keep looking and fighting for it, and I think it will pay off and you will find someone. Don't settle, whatever you do.

As for me: I don't really want my life upended. I don't want the kids' lives to be tossed around and for them to be a "statistic." We've worked too hard. Maybe it would be for the best because there ARE some pretty serious issues in our marriage. But...I do love my husb, and we've been through a lot together. Above all, he's my best friend.

Thank you so much for that. I appreciate it more than you know

Thank you guys. Hopefully all things work out for the best....

I appreciate your concern and care so much

Going to have to take your reply in sections, Sherlock:

I walked out once. For two days. Ten years ago. And I haven't really told you guys WHY I walked out that day; the reason I haven't told you is because it would be hurtful to him to talk about it. That's funny, isn't it? He's not even on this site/it's an "anon" site/he's never going to hear about this conversation....and yet, I can't tell you some of his deepest darkest "demons." Because I love and respect who he is. I'm not an emotional ticking time bomb. I'm actually very well adjusted considering all; and I have a great capacity for introspection, metacognition, finding problems and then finding solutions. I rely strongly on God to help me through my life and that is a strength, not a weakness. God gives us a sound mind and I keep that promise close to my heart. I strive for a happy and healthy life, and I will do what needs to be done to make sure that is the case...even looking at ugly truths in myself...and then FIXING THEM.

I DO have some emotional baggage. My husb grew up in a very emotionally healthy household and had a pleasurable young adulthood. On the other hand, I suffered a great deal...right up to the time I met him.

He has conceded one thing to me: He has said that anyone else who went through what I've gone through would be in a terrible situation: psych hospital/drugs/******hooker on the corner/dead...

My response to that is that it is BECAUSE OF HIM that I have been able to move forward. I have told him that THIS is my best life. I have told him that his stability and security has taught me how to "ADULT" properly.

I have been angry, resentful and frustrated in our marriage. I have expressed it from time to time when I have to. I don't know if that's really such a bad thing. I also express happiness, joy, love, respect, contentment. Far more often than the other....

I tell him that I appreciate AND LOVE him. I tell him that I am living my best life now. I also have told him variations of the following very often:

"You never have to worry about anything when you are old. I love you and I will take care of you. I will never put you in a home and I will be the one who works, if you need me to. If you need a caretaker, I will be there for you. I have been so appreciative of the way you have taken care of me over the years, and you have shown me how to be a better person, that I want to make sure that you 'get that back.' Don't worry about your future, I will make sure that you are safe"

This is because he has said that when he gets "too old," I should just drown him in the lake. It's an inside joke, based on events that happened when we were dating....so rest assured he's not THAT serious. But since he brings it up so often, and since I AM appreciative of him, I feel like he needs to know that I will be there for him like he has been there for me. But he doesn't want to be a burden. I've told him that I will take the burden (IF there even is one) and shoulder it with love, tenderness, and care...in the same way that he has lifted me up on his shoulders.

And I reassure him about this often...about the fact that I will be there to the end...because you are right. Years ago, during the time when I walked out ten years ago, and after we "weathered" that rough patch and things were status quo once again, I spent a couple years "distancing" myself from him. I spent more and more time with friends and out of the house and never talked to him about my heart issues.

It wasn't good for the marriage.

I knew it wasn't good

I knew the path that would take us down

I thought long and hard. And prayed. And considered divorce in my own mind (didn't bring it up to him)

I looked around. At other guys. At other relationships. I thought about the prospect of starting over.

I came to the realization that I would NEVER be with another guy. There are very few out there who are GOOD GUYS, honestly. And one of the GOOD GUYS would not want me, in a case that the guy would not already be snatched up....I realized that I would not want another guy; and I would not want to spend the time, energy, heartache and headache in searching for one. I HAVE a good guy. There are issues. But he IS a good guy.

So...after going through all of that ^^^^ I had a major change of heart and realized that if I was going to stay and if it was going to work, I was going to have to put more of myself into the relationship and expect less than what I wanted. It's hard. Because there are some things that are really missing, as is the case in ALL marriages. So lean on God, look at the bigger picture, and accept him for who he is. And LOVE him for who he is. I am far from a naggy, emotional time bomb that maybe you think I am. Thanks to him, I've matured very well.

I started to put my thoughts into action. I started to overlook things. I started to show love in the daily little activities. The result was that we had our fourth child...

1. Sometimes he doesn't. There are some issues. I have decided and made a conscientious effort to overlook them and to move on from the "bad," because the "good" outweighs it. It's been YEARS since I brought up the "bad."

2. Sometimes he doesn't. Again, we've weathered a lot and for the most part he's a great guy. I'm sure that there are times I don't please him. Though he doesn't tell me....

3. I am staying in the marriage for HIM. I have told him this on numerous occasions. I plan to make sure that HE is okay. For the rest of his life. I want to give back to him as he has given to me.

No, it's not all about him. It's also about our kids and what we have built. But when the kids are gone...it's me and him. And I will make sure that he is happy and healthy into his old age.

I am the one who is going to be alone. He has shown some concerning signs of aging. We are 14.5 years apart in age. I go to the gym. I eat well. Not saying I'm perfect...I have about 30# to shed, and I'm feeling MY OWN age already. I'm never going to remarry if I outlive him. (I'm never going to remarry in any instance. If we divorce. I'm too old and set in my ways and don't want to go through the new relationship again)

I'm not really and "effusive" person. But I do praise him. I think he's a great guy. And I know guys have egos....I stroke his ego because I know it will work in my favor ultimately ;) No, honestly...everyone needs to be praised. I know it and I do it. I'm all for sandwiching "prickly pears" between "warm hugs."

Probably not.

The bed bug lady didn't take a toll on our relationship. We've weathered much worse. It's not even a big deal anymore. It was one of those life stressors that you get through at the time and move on from.

Dates with the two of us...maybe once a month, maybe a little less. We have never left our kids with a sitter or in daycare. And because of that, it took having "older" kids to be able to go out. Now we have kids who are 17, 16, 13 and just turned 7.

We SHOULD have been able to go out much sooner...but the 13 year old is a wild child who throws a wrench in things. He's getting better over the last year or so, and we have gone out once a month-ish. Give or take.

I go to the gym. My husb has a membership too and he goes far less often (and doesn't actually do much when there other than walk around and talk to me...but that's okay) Anyway, when he has the desire to go to the gym, we will go together and we always enjoy that time. So it's not really a "date," but it is time along together a couple times a week-ish.

We also spend afternoons when he gets off work driving around in the car, relaxing, taking sips of coffee, talking, etc. He really likes to drive. It relaxes him. I really like to hang out with him. We really like to talk about our day without constant kid interruptions, so we do this quite often. He works five days on/five days off. On ALL of his off days, we go for a drive. We do it maybe half of his work days...again, I know it's not a "real" date, but it is time together.

Aside from that stuff...we do go out to eat alone and/or to a movie once a month-ish...

Finally, we've never taken a vaca with the two of us. Both of us would rather have a family vaca. We do 1-5 family vacations a year, depending on the extensiveness. Sometimes, it's a ski weekend. Sometimes, it's a trip to Mesa Verde for a week or to Moab or the like. Then it's a couple of those types of things a year.

Once in a while, we take a blow out trip (2009, 2016, 2018...and one planned for 2019). Those include Disney World and other stuff. They are usually long...all the vaca time spent on one trip vs spread out...etc.

I know for a fact that he would rather take a family vaca, because he talks about how quickly our kids are growing up. Our 17 yo has a girlfriend and is considering NOT going on the trip this year....consisting of a month of being gone...driving through the great ol' USA and seeing all the sights along the way. We are going to drive to St. Louis and spend 3 days; not sure about TN...might drive through (spent over a week in Memphis and Nashville last year) or we might spend a couple days. Then on to the Carolinas, where we have 10 days to spend since we've never been there before. From there, to Orlando, where we are going to spend 8-10 days (and 5 at WDW). From there, along the Gulf Coast hitting beaches for three days and then back to Colorado. It is just sort of "beyond" both my husband and I that the oldest doesn't want to participate in this trip...and husb is saying that maybe we shouldn't take the trip if all of us are not going to participate. My thoughts are those of heartbreak, thinking about not having my son along.

But, nope...no trips with just the two of us. I reckon that's coming as the kids decline participation....

*oops. Honeymoon was both of us alone....

He hasn't mentioned it, but he did not "come home" when he got off work yesterday, and he was not at work. He was out for 4 hours after work, and he's NEVER done that before.

I have to clarify, I guess. He's a cop. So he's "late" often, but when he's late, I could call dispatch and find out what call he's on...and he's always at work. But he can't be "out/off work" while in his uniform and in his squad car. So he DID come home. Dropped off his car and changed. While I was gone to take one of the kids to dance practice. He knew where I was. He didn't get back home til 4 hours after the end of his shift

*ugh.

I type too much :eyeroll:

He's a cop. We never HAD a lot of money and we don't now, either. In fact, there was a time when we used a food bank. We have property, yes. But all those properties have mortgages. So in all honesty, our debt is extensive. But we make more than we spend and property values/rents are sky rocketing. We charge under market value on all of our properties, as well. He says that he is worried about a housing bust. I'm not. In a housing bust, there will be MORE renters; and our rents are lower than average, so we won't ever need to lower them.

And the goal is to have enough to not worry in a few years. Enough to pay off some of the properties and NOT have ALL OF those mortgages.

The next goal is to have enough to retire. But it took a long time to get where we are and it's going to take a long time to have THAT much. There were some wrenches thrown into the process. And kids. And the whole life mantra I have of "There's a thin line between "You only live once" and "bills for life."

So, I've offered to work. I won't bring in as much as he brings in. He's been on the same job for 20 years. I would be "starting out." Even if I worked in a field where I got my education, I would still be "starting out," and making 1/2 of what he makes. My salary would grow, sure.

The issue around all of that is that neither of us wants to put the kids in public school, and he doesn't teach. I've tried to get him/teach him/train him to take over some of that to make it easier for me to get into full time work. He's just not able to teach the kids.

But he doesn't want me to get a real or a FT job. He wants our lives to stay like they are.

So I'm looking at teaching ESL online to kids in China through the nights. I wasn't planning on starting that until after our potential move in March, though. I have started on the process of being a notary for banks...in this housing economy, being a traveling notary for closing documents is pretty lucrative. I mystery shop and baby sit and tutor.

^^^^ All of those things are to try to start to replace his income...WITHOUT having to get a FT job outside the home. If I need to get a FT job outside the home, I will do that.

In the meantime, I've been looking at commercial property and looking at what we need to do to get commercial loans. I'm moving forward with the real estate thing, because someday it will be a really good gig....

So...should I just take control and go get a job? He would hate that. Kids would hate that. I would hate that. Maybe it would be the best move though, to take some of the "earning" responsibility off of him? IDK. And honestly, IDK if he cares that much any more, one way or the other....

To a friend's house who is also a co worker. I know the friend; I know he was there. The friend is a male, who my husband admires a great deal.
So I suppose it's all okay. It was just weird that he didn't tell me where he was, because we don't do that to each other.

Thank you

Yeah, a vaca would be awesome. I need one. I feel completely stressed out and tired lately!

We are working on things. We haven't gotten divorced. He got the paperwork, but hasn't filed it.

@Nix...can't raise the rent until time for contract renewals in August. Then we will for sure.

@Sherlock I agree. Cops have higher incidences of divorce, alcoholism and suicide. So I guess this rough patch maybe "goes with the territory?"

He's looking into using his GI Bill...or whatever it is called for military guys to go to college. It seems as if he is eligible for a set amount, whether college costs that much or not. So he's going to take a financial planning class (or a few classes) in the summer hopefully and use his military award money. He is then going to apply to work at a bank or other financial institution. He has an MBA but he got it in the 1990's, so he feels like he won't be hired somewhere without taking the class(es).

The thing is: he's always bemoaned getting an MBA and not working at a job where it was needed or even appreciated. So this will be a good thing for him to do. I think it will make him happy.

I'm writing a book, picking up more kids to tutor versus babysitting (tutoring pays far more than babysitting) and thinking about working somewhere soon....just that part of being a stay at home parents helps with so many things: our son had his first heartbreak, after a couple weeks of arguing with his first serious girlfriend...it's great to be home and be there for him. My daughter is trying out at dance studios all over, to get into a dance intensive this summer...it's great to be able to take her to these things and be there for her. So, again, going to work FT will damage our family life...I'm going to try to find something PT.

We also did go ahead with buying the new house (IDK how smart that is, but we decided to do it). So we are moving. We close on March 4th, but don't need to actually be out of the house we're in until April 15, so we have LOTS of time to move, which will make it far less stressful than it would otherwise be....

And...thank you all for your care and concern.

I will not be here much; I feel like working on the marriage and family is best

:)

Thanks :)

That top is my husband's. He loves that thing. Once, when I was cleaning things out for a garage sale, I was taking pics of things and asking, "Should I sell/throw away/keep?"

He'd been missing this top for a while. I found it buried in a desk drawer, so I took a pic and sent it saying, "Look what I found!"

He's had it since he was young. He wanted to be an architect, and apparently this top is something that is used in design school. It's some special type of "architect spinning top tool" with a special name that I can't remember and can't find by googling :)

Marriage is okay now. On a plateau. Thanks all :)