This is gonna be an unusual one, but appropriate for this site.
I found this site in 2003/4 when looking for help for my partner at the time.
My first ever post was about that.
I received support with it, and made some amazing friends here.
The person I was with and wanted help for is now dead.
He died in Sept 2013.
There was an inquest into his death.
I can not for the life of me find any details of the inquest.
I spoke briefly with 2 of his sister's soon after his death and before the inquest, and this was upsetting for them so it was the kind thing to stop.
I also spoke with his friend, but the inquest hadn't been done yet.
I tried again since but I think I was too OTT and annoyed her.
I have tried various times online to find out but no luck.
The authorities wouldn't talk to me as I wasn't a relative.
Is there any way of finding anything out?
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HelpBot wrote:
If you are contemplating suicide, hurting yourself, or you are seriously depressed: please, seek professional help!Call this hotline (1-800-273-8255) operated by our friends at the Suicide Prevention Lifeline (http://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/), anytime, for free, professional, and confidential assistance. While other Helpers are likely to reply to your post, please make sure you understand that your use of Help-QA.com falls under or TOS (http://help-qa.com/terms-of-service).
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Thanks Helpbot , you were the first to reply on my first post for help too.
You could order a death certificate, but since you’re not a relative, they would only give it to you if you were ordering through some sort of official agency. Barring that, and since you don’t want to ask his family, the last resort I can think of is hiring a private investigator. I don’t think they would charge very much for something like that.
I have to ask, though - are you trying to find out to get some closure? 4 years is a long time.
Do you know any of his friends?
Help me with: [quote]Test.
[/quote]
Araz, you are correct I can't get the certificate, but that would only be a cause of death, not the full story.
Private investigator isn't a bad idea, and I hadn't thought of that.
I couldn't be more skint lately so wouldn't be possible now, but def one to be considered.
I'm not sure I can fully explain my reasons for wanting this.
We had split up at least 2 yrs before he died, but we remained good friends and talked often, and even though we both moved far away we met up when we could
Yeti. wrote:
Do you know any of his friends?
I did, but we have lost contact, and the one I spoke with most at the time I pushed too much and annoyed.
I doubt she would have bothered to find out the autopsy and inquest details so unlikely she would know.
J.N-Bucking wrote:
Araz, you are correct I can't get the certificate, but that would only be a cause of death, not the full story.Private investigator isn't a bad idea, and I hadn't thought of that.
I couldn't be more skint lately so wouldn't be possible now, but def one to be considered.I'm not sure I can fully explain my reasons for wanting this.
We had split up at least 2 yrs before he died, but we remained good friends and talked often, and even though we both moved far away we met up when we could
Wouldn’t hurt to get some sort of free consultation just to see what they might charge and what they are capable of doing?
It’s ok if you can’t explain your reasons, sometimes it’s hard to understand yourself let alone make someone else understand.
I am English, he was from cork in southern Ireland, there is a LOT of hatred and racism between England and Ireland.
His mum hated me, I knew her quite well, she tolerated me as we lived near each other on a Scottish island, but when he came to stay with her and we met and started getting close she did all she could to stop it, and when we got together and got serious and started living together she was raging.
She put an act on to my face, but constantly tried to get him to leave me.
We moved a long way away from her but she still tried making him leave me.
He tried to kill himself and I physically saved him, when she found out she hated me less.
I am pretty sure she would know full details but I've no way of getting them from her.
A lot of his friends hated me just cos I'm English, a couple of them looked past that and liked me regardless of that, but we lost contact.
There's now only the one I annoyed with pushing it so much to find out the details that I could contact, but I doubt she knows more than I already know.
Araz wrote:
J.N-Bucking wrote:
Araz, you are correct I can't get the certificate, but that would only be a cause of death, not the full story.Private investigator isn't a bad idea, and I hadn't thought of that.
I couldn't be more skint lately so wouldn't be possible now, but def one to be considered.I'm not sure I can fully explain my reasons for wanting this.
We had split up at least 2 yrs before he died, but we remained good friends and talked often, and even though we both moved far away we met up when we couldWouldn’t hurt to get some sort of free consultation just to see what they might charge and what they are capable of doing?
It’s ok if you can’t explain your reasons, sometimes it’s hard to understand yourself let alone make someone else understand.
I really loved him when we were together. He really loved me too.
He saved me when we met and I'll be forever greatful to him for that.
We were together a long time and we did everything together
We were free spirits together, we moved all over the North together.
I found a new world with him, and he found a new life with me.
We had to seperate eventually, but even after we split we were each other's safety net.
We lived strange lives and often ended up in bad situations we needed rescuing from, and it didn't matter where the other one was, one of us would always get to the other to save them, we travelled huge journeys to get to the other and would stay together until things could be ok again.
When he died we hadn't spoke for a couple of months, and that was unusual.
I suddenly had a really bad feeling so I text him, got no.reply so tried ringing him, no answer.
Dent him fb msgs but they remained unread.
Carried on trying.
Next day I was so worried I contacted his sister, then his friend.
They told me he had just died.
How is that even possible that I could be so sure that he suddenly wasn't ok???
After a couple of months I knew for certain at that time something had happened???
@Yeti.
You fear it... happened, and you weren't there. I can see the guilt in your words.
Please don't torment yourself, J. It wasn't your fault. I don't know whether it was fate trying to guide your hand, but it seems to have occurred too swiftly for anyone to react - not even the people who were closest to him, physically.
You could try looking up his name here.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
https://www.iannounce.co.uk/Republic-of-Ireland...
Help me with: [quote]Test.
[/quote]
Im so sorry for your loss Joe.
Looking at the NHS site it doesnt appear that you will be able to get it. And I dont know if a PI would either.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/inquest/
But then again this one says you can.....
Dear JN, in the USA the results of an inquest would be a matter of public record. It would appear to be the case in the UK, as well.
I have also worked as a private investigator in Canada. Fees are quite expensive, I assure you.
I suggest that you bid your friend goodbye, and move on. Your lives intersected, and I am sure that he was also the better for it. But death claims all in the end.
Keep in your heart those things that he gave you that made you a better person--and let him go.
Sherlock wrote:
Dear JN, in the USA the results of an inquest would be a matter of public record. It would appear to be the case in the UK, as well.I have also worked as a private investigator in Canada. Fees are quite expensive, I assure you.
I suggest that you bid your friend goodbye, and move on. Your lives intersected, and I am sure that he was also the better for it. But death claims all in the end.
Keep in your heart those things that he gave you that made you a better person--and let him go.
Wow... Nailed it Sherlock.
Help me with: We have another hurricane coming this way.
If an inquest is a public record, why would it take $$$ to uncover it?
Help me with: We have another hurricane coming this way.
Nixx wrote:
Im so sorry for your loss Joe.Looking at the NHS site it doesnt appear that you will be able to get it. And I dont know if a PI would either.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/inquest/
But then again this one says you can.....
He died I'm cork, so the NHS wouldn't have any dealings with it.
Will check out the links tho.
Thanks.
I just don't seem to be able to let go of this.
soco wrote:
If an inquest is a public record, why would it take $$$ to uncover it?
Good question
Big-Al-One wrote:
You can try to find the examining physician and talk to him on a personal and private level....
This brings back the English/ Irish hatred thing.
They're unlikely to want to help me.
How would I find that out tho?
I'd definitely give it a go....
Sherlock wrote:
Investigators charge a good bit even to research "public" records.And they'd much rather do that than sit in a car for 12 hours, waiting for someone to appear!
How would I go about finding one and getting a price?
I looked yesterday when that was suggested but they were all the honey trap types
PepperJ wrote:
Inquests are also public record here, but you still have to pay for them.I'm so sorry that you haven't found the answers you want; I hope that you can heal and move on...but the memory of him will always be bittersweet to you
I guess there's a chance they are here too, but I don't know where to look.
It's made more difficult that I'm in England and he was in Ireland so it's different countries and different rules
Yeti. wrote:
You fear it... happened, and you weren't there. I can see the guilt in your words.Please don't torment yourself, J. It wasn't your fault. I don't know whether it was fate trying to guide your hand, but it seems to have occurred too swiftly for anyone to react - not even the people who were closest to him, physically.
You could try looking up his name here.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
https://www.iannounce.co.uk/Republic-of-Ireland...
Thank you yeti
I had saved his life before, and I guess I felt I could do it again.
If you save someone's life you're in some way responsible for it.
I have half a thought that he killed himself, but I don't know this for sure, and in the newspaper reports I found it looks like a car crash.
I have tried a lot of your suggestions and got nothing.
I will continue trying.
His name is John Foran
DOB 25/12/1971 or 72, think it is 72 (feel terrible for being unsure)
A car he was driving hit a bridge in adrigole in cork Ireland on the R572.
He wasn't found right away so this could have happened on the 8th Sept 2013.
It was published on the 9th.
I cant post the link to it on my phone so am gonna get the lap top out to do that.
Yes, you ultimately cannot save people from themselves. When people are unwilling to take responsibility for themselves, the only option left is an institution. Unfortunately, it is too difficult to institutionalize people these days--due to budgets and civil libertarians crying about "rights."
So we don't provide those people with the help that they need, and they perish. That, according to the civil libertarians, is more humane than putting them in psychiatric hospitals.
I disagree.
Sherlock wrote:
Yes, you ultimately cannot save people from themselves. When people are unwilling to take responsibility for themselves, the only option left is an institution. Unfortunately, it is too difficult to institutionalize people these days--due to budgets and civil libertarians crying about "rights."So we don't provide those people with the help that they need, and they perish. That, according to the civil libertarians, is more humane than putting them in psychiatric hospitals.
I disagree.
I just think if he died intentionally he would have spoke to me first.
I dont even know thats what happened, it might not be, this is why i need to know the report.
Nixx wrote:
Hows your irish accent? Maybe call and pretend your irish.Or pretend your a relative.
Yea it's ****shit, and they would want proof I'm a relative.
I was closer to him than any relatives, yet I'm the one they won't tell anything to.
sorry to be late, i havent read everything but i've read most of it. if you can get the right PI you can find out anything its just a case of finding them. though ill see if i can find anything with the name and dates youve given. might have access to something as a uni student for research purposes...often turns out to be helpful!
ProffVampy wrote:
sorry to be late, i havent read everything but i've read most of it. if you can get the right PI you can find out anything its just a case of finding them. though ill see if i can find anything with the name and dates youve given. might have access to something as a uni student for research purposes...often turns out to be helpful!
I would massively appreciate that!!
I have emailed a couple of PIs to see if they could help and a price.
I'm really skint tho
J.N-Bucking wrote:
ProffVampy wrote:
sorry to be late, i havent read everything but i've read most of it. if you can get the right PI you can find out anything its just a case of finding them. though ill see if i can find anything with the name and dates youve given. might have access to something as a uni student for research purposes...often turns out to be helpful!I would massively appreciate that!!
I have emailed a couple of PIs to see if they could help and a price.
I'm really skint tho
no worries, im digging. dont know much about southern ireland but im sure there will be something somewhere, just gotta find the right question to ask
ProffVampy wrote:
J.N-Bucking wrote:
ProffVampy wrote:
sorry to be late, i havent read everything but i've read most of it. if you can get the right PI you can find out anything its just a case of finding them. though ill see if i can find anything with the name and dates youve given. might have access to something as a uni student for research purposes...often turns out to be helpful!I would massively appreciate that!!
I have emailed a couple of PIs to see if they could help and a price.
I'm really skint tho
no worries, im digging. dont know much about southern ireland but im sure there will be something somewhere, just gotta find the right question to ask
Thank you so much!!
I don't know where else to look.
I spent weeks non stop after his death trying to find anything out.
I have tried letting it go, but I just can't do it
i have found a few enquiry forms you could fill out and send off. as a previous partner who, for the sake of pulling heart strings, has only just found out he has passed and is looking for answers but is unable to contact the family, there might be someone at the other end who is willing to help.
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/forms/proni-enquiry
http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certif...
when im at uni ill ask around and see if theres anything that the forensic students have access to that might be helpful.
ProffVampy wrote:
i have found a few enquiry forms you could fill out and send off. as a previous partner who, for the sake of pulling heart strings, has only just found out he has passed and is looking for answers but is unable to contact the family, there might be someone at the other end who is willing to help.https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/forms/proni-enquiry
http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certif...when im at uni ill ask around and see if theres anything that the forensic students have access to that might be helpful.
I have just completed that form and sent it off.
Says they answer within 14 days.
J.N-Bucking wrote:
Sherlock wrote:
Yes, you ultimately cannot save people from themselves. When people are unwilling to take responsibility for themselves, the only option left is an institution. Unfortunately, it is too difficult to institutionalize people these days--due to budgets and civil libertarians crying about "rights."So we don't provide those people with the help that they need, and they perish. That, according to the civil libertarians, is more humane than putting them in psychiatric hospitals.
I disagree.
I just think if he died intentionally he would have spoke to me first.
I dont even know thats what happened, it might not be, this is why i need to know the report.
From the news article, I would deduce that he had drugs in his system. And that does not lead to rational thinking.
The recovery rate from drug addiction is not very high--something like 3 percent.
There are certain things we will never know on this side of death. But I commend you for trying.
But remember--at some point--to let go.
Sherlock wrote:
J.N-Bucking wrote:
Sherlock wrote:
Yes, you ultimately cannot save people from themselves. When people are unwilling to take responsibility for themselves, the only option left is an institution. Unfortunately, it is too difficult to institutionalize people these days--due to budgets and civil libertarians crying about "rights."So we don't provide those people with the help that they need, and they perish. That, according to the civil libertarians, is more humane than putting them in psychiatric hospitals.
I disagree.
I just think if he died intentionally he would have spoke to me first.
I dont even know thats what happened, it might not be, this is why i need to know the report.
From the news article, I would deduce that he had drugs in his system. And that does not lead to rational thinking.
The recovery rate from drug addiction is not very high--something like 3 percent.
There are certain things we will never know on this side of death. But I commend you for trying.
But remember--at some point--to let go.
He didn't use drugs apart from occasional weed smoking.
He was an alcoholic but had remained sober for a good few years.
Things had been getting better for him and he had got an amicable relationship going with his ex wife, so he was getting access to his kids pretty much whenever he wanted.
While it is definitely a possibility he had fallen off the wagon, it seems like an odd time to do it.
All the details before it are confusing.
Yes.
When you look at what happened on the last day of his life, it does not reflect rational thinking on his part. For one reason or another, he was at the end of his tether--and it could have been drugs, or alcohol, or a combination of the two.
Or he could have just said to himself, "The hell with it."
I had a brother-in-law to commit suicide. His wife had been having an affair with their pastor. The wife, a real shrew, was divorced him and took the kids--and was getting the house he built with his own hands. Then he wrecked a second vehicle. He opened the glove box, took out a .44 magnum revolver, walked into the woods and shot himself. He figured he had lost it all.
So just before pulling the trigger, he must have thought, "The hell with it."
His ex-wife is now living in the house he built, and if what happened affected her at all, she has not shown it. I cannot imagine how she could live there after all she had done to him. She is very likely a sociopath, and cannot empathize with others.
I advised him to go after the pastor with a lawsuit, which he did. The pastor, sensing the noose tightening around his neck, went into his garage, started his car and sat in it until the carbon monoxide took his life.
It was all like a Greek tragedy--you know, those plays where everyone dies.
I was going through my own trials and tribulations at the time, so wasn't any real help to my brother-in-law. It is something I will always regret.
But we cannot bring people back or change the past. All we can do is change the future . . .
. . . and believe that somewhere, somehow, sometime,God is going to right all wrongs and wipe away all tears, and bring us all to a better place.
Accident means it was non-intentional. Regardless of the chemicals found in his blood (If it was tested at all) or contents of his stomach, one will never ever know what was going through his mind at the time of the accident.
Accidents have a cause, not a purpose.
Help me with: We have another hurricane coming this way.
Sherlock wrote:
Yes.When you look at what happened on the last day of his life, it does not reflect rational thinking on his part. For one reason or another, he was at the end of his tether--and it could have been drugs, or alcohol, or a combination of the two.
Or he could have just said to himself, "The hell with it."
I had a brother-in-law to commit suicide. His wife had been having an affair with their pastor. The wife, a real shrew, was divorced him and took the kids--and was getting the house he built with his own hands. Then he wrecked a second vehicle. He opened the glove box, took out a .44 magnum revolver, walked into the woods and shot himself. He figured he had lost it all.
So just before pulling the trigger, he must have thought, "The hell with it."
His ex-wife is now living in the house he built, and if what happened affected her at all, she has not shown it. I cannot imagine how she could live there after all she had done to him. She is very likely a sociopath, and cannot empathize with others.
I advised him to go after the pastor with a lawsuit, which he did. The pastor, sensing the noose tightening around his neck, went into his garage, started his car and sat in it until the carbon monoxide took his life.
It was all like a Greek tragedy--you know, those plays where everyone dies.
I was going through my own trials and tribulations at the time, so wasn't any real help to my brother-in-law. It is something I will always regret.
But we cannot bring people back or change the past. All we can do is change the future . . .
. . . and believe that somewhere, somehow, sometime,God is going to right all wrongs and wipe away all tears, and bring us all to a better place.
Thank you Sherlock.
And well written.
If he did do this on purpose, that does seem like the type of method he would have chosen.
soco wrote:
Accident means it was non-intentional. Regardless of the chemicals found in his blood (If it was tested at all) or contents of his stomach, one will never ever know what was going through his mind at the time of the accident.Accidents have a cause, not a purpose.
This was written in the paper the day after it happened, so to write accident would just be presumed at that stage.
The inquest would show all details.
Not really.
Got some leads to follow in Ireland, but not got the funds to persew them right now.
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